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WarGamer

(18,199 posts)

88. I still don't get it.

Sat Feb 15, 2025, 07:55 PM

Feb 2025

To this day I don't understand the invasion.

The only thing I can assume...

Putin believed there's be 3-4 skirmishes and then a surrender leading to a Russian proxy leader of Ukraine.

Then he got trapped in a war that POLITICALLY he can't quit... while taking flak from the Oligarchs who really run that country.

If that was his plan... a fast victory, I think it was wishful thinking, not grounded in reality and a monumental blunder akin to Hitler waiting to invade Russia in June.

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Emrys

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I know many, especially here... are upset about the situation in Ukraine. [View all] WarGamer Feb 2025 OP

Not pleasant, but it needs to end. I remember reading here as war started that it would end with Ukraine losing Silent Type Feb 2025 #1

Re: "Negotiations MUST include security guarantees from European allies and the US." Mister Ed Feb 2025 #2

Yeah, those guarantees aren't worth much. Especially with a Trump (or Vance) administration that tears up treaties newdeal2 Feb 2025 #8

Not worth much is right..The 1994 Trilateral agreement said the west would protect Ukraine if they gave up mitch96 Feb 2025 #11

Putin will never accept that last bit BeyondGeography Feb 2025 #3

re: victory TnDem Feb 2025 #15

Oh, fuck that. Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #23

re: Ukraine TnDem Feb 2025 #25

Ukrainians and the other Slavic peoples radius777 Feb 2025 #29

Exactly. nt Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #37

During the peak of the Soviet empire, Moscow controlled everything Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #35

Post removed Post removed Feb 2025 #38

Comrade settle down. Swede Feb 2025 #42

. Scrivener7 Feb 2025 #80

A large chunk of our aid to Ukraine is being spent here BeyondGeography Feb 2025 #46

That last sentence is the line being pumped by many Russian bots on Twitter right now, Emrys Feb 2025 #47

Ukraine is on the front line of freedom, radius777 Feb 2025 #49

The Holodimor? Did I spell it right? electric_blue68 Feb 2025 #121

Groups of Ukrainian nationalists also aided the Nazis rounding up Jews in Ukraine in WW2. WarGamer Feb 2025 #53

He's outta here, dude. n/t Emrys Feb 2025 #58

A strange mix of folks get interested in these discussions. WarGamer Feb 2025 #60

Various groups did side with the Nazis to escape radius777 Feb 2025 #67

It didn't help that Ukraine had been through the Holodomor Emrys Feb 2025 #79

Every Arab nation sided with Hitler in WWII. yardwork Feb 2025 #111

Hitlers last guards in the bunker were French. Swede Feb 2025 #81

A combination... WarGamer Feb 2025 #85

Iraq and Iran were part of the Axis. yardwork Feb 2025 #112

There were also some Ukrainian nationalists who stood up to the Nazis and saved Jews Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #116

Huh...Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church! Who knew there was such a thing.... electric_blue68 Feb 2025 #122

THIS! My dad, and His dad (Ukrainian Immigrant) Hated The Soviet Union! electric_blue68 Feb 2025 #120

So? Then they stopped wearing the same uniform, Ukraine became independent, and Russia invaded a sovereign country. Scrivener7 Feb 2025 #33

Of course people haven't forgotten, least of all the Ukrainians TubbersUK Feb 2025 #93

That was not the general will of the Ukrainian people! 😑 electric_blue68 Feb 2025 #119

Negotiations not going anywhere? osteopath6 Feb 2025 #16

They will only go anywhere if Putin makes real concessions BeyondGeography Feb 2025 #18

Nor did I suggest it osteopath6 Feb 2025 #19

you might even get a piece of paper lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #43

The OP is the ghost of Chamberlain. BannonsLiver Feb 2025 #127

Comrade Putin applauds your strategy to deny Ukraine all funding Emrys Feb 2025 #51

No diplomatic attempt have even been made? MarineCombatEngineer Feb 2025 #66

But if the war Funding for Ukraine is stopped, then Most Likely the Whole Ukrainian State will be over run by Putin... electric_blue68 Feb 2025 #123

"Here's what he's thinking. If he can end up with a Ukraine that's 30% smaller....." Disaffected Feb 2025 #4

Post removed Post removed Feb 2025 #17

NATO has already expanded to Russia's doorstep. Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #22

Asking questions osteopath6 Feb 2025 #26

Diplomatic action has been ongoing since the Budapest agreement in 1994. And it has been a disaster for Ukraine. Beastly Boy Feb 2025 #106

+1. Russia lost the Cold War, and losers don't radius777 Feb 2025 #36

Russia lost the Cold war, unfortunately the Russian proletariat lost the peace that followed Emrys Feb 2025 #90

NATO has already expanded to Russia's doorstep (on several borders). Disaffected Feb 2025 #24

Russia already has borders with NATO countries n/t TubbersUK Feb 2025 #28

Where the hell have you been these last 40 years? MarineCombatEngineer Feb 2025 #30

That Gish gallop has so many untruths in it that I just can't be bothered to respond, Emrys Feb 2025 #5

+100 yardwork Feb 2025 #10

I'm a bit more hopeful that Ukraine won't "fall", whatever that would look like. Emrys Feb 2025 #12

I hope you're right. yardwork Feb 2025 #104

Exactly. My only remaining question is which side of the horseshoe it is coming from... W_HAMILTON Feb 2025 #34

True dat! FSogol Feb 2025 #44

You are incorrect: Putin wants ALL of Ukraine andym Feb 2025 #6

Especially now that TSF is in place. bluestarone Feb 2025 #7

I'd like to know moondust Feb 2025 #9

One problem is that so many Ukrainians have been displaced from those areas or killed, Emrys Feb 2025 #13

The majority of the residents of Crimea are now Russian womanofthehills Feb 2025 #84

That tends to happen after genocide and when you don't want to be part of it (see bold below) Emrys Feb 2025 #91

re: Ukraine TnDem Feb 2025 #14

Ukraine already won the war. Russia will keep winning battles, but they are losing the war. Beastly Boy Feb 2025 #20

agreed... from that perspective. WarGamer Feb 2025 #21

It'll be a Pyrrhic victory if it's squandered in the aftermath Emrys Feb 2025 #31

I don't believe milirary victory for Ukraine is an achievable goal. Beastly Boy Feb 2025 #105

By that token, nor do I believe that military victory for Russia is achievable, Emrys Feb 2025 #109

Beastly..I gotta. Say that your post helps with my depression over this issue..I didn't look at it from that perspective Deuxcents Feb 2025 #69

Russia should only get territory they have already destroyed The Madcap Feb 2025 #27

Oh you! W_HAMILTON Feb 2025 #32

Agreed, a very blatent astroturf. KayossZero Feb 2025 #41

I 100% disagree. You can't negotiate with Putin. Swede Feb 2025 #39

online "experts" wishcasting about the war. lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #40

Unlike most here... I've actually BEEN TO Russia AND Ukraine. WarGamer Feb 2025 #50

dude, he is posting about things from 2 and 3 years ago lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #98

Agree Strelnikov_ Feb 2025 #95

Jake Broe disagrees with you. He still sees a Russian economic or political collapse as more likely Quixote1818 Feb 2025 #45

lol... a top Wishcaster on YouTube. WarGamer Feb 2025 #48

*fingers in ears* LALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU Emrys Feb 2025 #52

Just FYI... WarGamer Feb 2025 #59

The Ukrainians have debunked that theory that Johnson was instrumental in their decision Emrys Feb 2025 #76

I only talk about being right when so many tell me I'm wrong. WarGamer Feb 2025 #77

I've been plain with you about what I find objectionable - it's being categorical and predicting outcomes Emrys Feb 2025 #82

I infinitely enjoy interactions on DU... I've learned so much about topics I knew nothing about. WarGamer Feb 2025 #86

Careful Emrys Feb 2025 #87

Definitely. WarGamer Feb 2025 #89

"I only talk about being right when so many tell me I'm wrong." LudwigPastorius Feb 2025 #102

The "Wishcasting" seems to be going in both directions based on what others are saying about your previous posts Quixote1818 Feb 2025 #57

People also misunderstand me about this WarGamer Feb 2025 #68

I could fill a thread with reputable economists and analysts who've been predicting the same Emrys Feb 2025 #54

I think Syria this past January... Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #55

Russia's neocons seem to like it though ck4829 Feb 2025 #56

This you? W_HAMILTON Feb 2025 #61

I didn't think Putin would invade Ukraine... didn't believe that we could see another European WW2 style conflict. WarGamer Feb 2025 #75

Something very icky about this post! displacedvermoter Feb 2025 #62

It's a feature -- not a bug. W_HAMILTON Feb 2025 #64

Understand displacedvermoter Feb 2025 #65

You should see their pro-DOGE OP. BannonsLiver Feb 2025 #126

This you as well? W_HAMILTON Feb 2025 #63

I linked a pre-war NYT article... bad me. WarGamer Feb 2025 #71

Or did you cherry-pick an article and post it here to further a pro-Russian narrative? W_HAMILTON Feb 2025 #83

I still don't get it. WarGamer Feb 2025 #88

From what I can see, Putin was a victim of the regime he'd built around him Emrys Feb 2025 #97

great info thx WarGamer Feb 2025 #100

This could be the future of the U.S. state and military. yardwork Feb 2025 #115

Read The Road to Unfreedom by Tim Snyder. yardwork Feb 2025 #114

What was bad was that you repeated Putin's propaganda. yardwork Feb 2025 #113

I don't repeat propaganda... if I said it, it's a fact. WarGamer Feb 2025 #118

Gee whiz it's almost if there's a pattern... BannonsLiver Feb 2025 #125

I think we are going to see European troops in Ukraine. roamer65 Feb 2025 #70

Agree... I also think Ukraine will be wildly successful after the war is over. WarGamer Feb 2025 #72

Ukrainian military will form the core of the new European army. roamer65 Feb 2025 #74

What's really upsetting is that Elon Musk is the primary benefactor in all of this. Initech Feb 2025 #73

Musk wants the huge stores of Lithium... that's right. WarGamer Feb 2025 #78

I wish our media could hammer this point home. Initech Feb 2025 #94

Hmmm JustAnotherGen Feb 2025 #92

Don't think they will stop at Ukraine Meowmee Feb 2025 #96

Latvia, Lithuania, Romania... Moldova lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #99

Transnestria gives them the perfect motive. Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 #103

There's some unfinished business in Georgia Emrys Feb 2025 #110

We will have to see if Europe and Nato allow Putin and the Mango Malefactor to dictate the terms of surrender to Ukraine CentralMass Feb 2025 #101

Germany delivering 6,000 HX-2 (swarm capable) AI attack drones to Ukraine Red Mountain Feb 2025 #107

I should add..... Red Mountain Feb 2025 #108

The only negotiation is Putin giving up. alarimer Feb 2025 #117

You want the party down the hall. BannonsLiver Feb 2025 #124

It's a great OP... some of the respondents are the top notch of DU... WarGamer Feb 2025 #129

"Maybe" I am reminded of the Parable of the Farmer and the Horse. WheelWalker Feb 2025 #128