Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ancianita

(40,551 posts)
50. Your interpretation is what's horrible.
Mon Mar 17, 2025, 02:00 PM
Mar 17

"God" indeed is the exact reason you have a conscience, a soul, and empathy for your fellow man. You follow Jesus' 2nd Great Commandment -- Love your neighbor as yourself -- that offsets the Old Testament.

You're right about emotions. They're natural. Conditionable and controllable, too.

Turn away from the sky daddy if you want. I've made what you humanists call "Pascal's wager."
At death, if I'm right, all's well between me and God for eternity; but not good for you for eternity, where you will suffer with yourself who you loved more than anything.
If you're right, I've only lost a belief based on history, so, no more than you.

Pascal's wager allows one to find out about the following...

When biblical knowledge works for 2.4 BILLION people on the planet today, it's obvious that that knowledge wasn't limited by its original location. It's like saying that anything a scientist says is limited by the scientist who wrote it -- you know, like Einstein in that little town of Prague.
Both science and Christian knowledge are fact based. Why? Because Jesus was a real human, and was witnessed by at least 5 of whom saw him die, and 500+ people more, who touched, talked with, saw his wounds, and saw him after he had risen, and by 7 of his 12 apostles who wrote of these events after they witnessed his ascension. Why would 11 of his 12 apostles want to die for spreading lies? Yes, they were killed by various means. But not before they wrote their gospels and epistles and histories.

TEN non-Christian writers -- who range from neutral to decidedly anti-Christian -- mention Jesus within 150 years of his life and death. While archaeology has been catastrophic in verifying claims of other religions, over 20,000 archaeological digs continue to corroborate the evidence presented by the writers of the New Testament (the 6th final and eternal Covenant that fulfills & supersedes the 5 OT Covenants of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, & David).

What establishes the historicity of the New Testament books
— Within 10 years of the ascension of Jesus that the apostles witnessed, the apostles had attracted followers of a new peak morality and God consciousness from Jerusalem to Antioch (the first church to call Jewish Jesus believers Christ-ian) Edessa, Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonica, Cyprus, Crete, Alexandria and Rome.
— By 100 AD, 40+ churches were established by the apostles, most in Asia Minor and Upper Mesopotamia, such as the seven churches of Asia, and some in Greece and Italy.

— Within three generations after 1 AD, those whose knowledge was based on their witness to the life, teachings, death & resurrection of Jesus, then spread that knowledge this far in human history without the original eyewitnesses, because of the 27 documents that 9 apostles (out of the original 11 apostles) left behind about everything they witnessed wherever they were, since Jesus had told them before he left, that the Holy Ghost would come to them to inspire their memories of all they saw Jesus say and do. Compared to all other ancient historians, that's more than enough to establish historicity.

Historian & doctor, Luke, in The Gospel according to Luke, references 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands that have all been verified by archaeologists. Luke made zero mistakes. Why? Because he wrote of things that historians can only know from eyewitnesses -- local slang, topographical features, specific weather patterns, small town politicians, etc. How would such a careful historian suddenly be careless in tracing the eyewitness accounts of the resurrection of Jesus. He wouldn't.
By the end of 1 AD, Christianity was spread far by Paul (a converted Jewish Pharisee known as the 13th apostle) to the Gentiles and his very few assistants. Paul traversed from Antioch to Spain.

The current 66 books of the Bible were established by the Christian church that changed its name to the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent. The timeline of their canonizing (below) was before the canonizing of the Hebrew Bible, now known as the Old Testament.
350 AD formally established by Bishop Cyril of Jerusalem
363 AD confirmed by the Council of Laodicea
367 AD further established by Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria
382 AD confirmed by the Council of Rome

After 2,000 years…
It goes from unreasonable to preposterous to claim that the original 13 apostles made some pact to be willing to be killed for their alleged hoax. And 11 of them were killed.
Only those who actually experienced such teachings, and witnessed such events, would commit to such travel, such hardship, jailing & longsuffering, and death, to spread their knowledge of Jesus' teachings.
No "hoax" lasts long in human history, nevermind 2 millennia before the existence of the historical Jesus, then another two thousand years after Jesus' actual life.

"Good" science is disproven all the time. That doesn't mean science is a hoax, or is some "religion" people believe in.
"Good" knowledge, older than science, knowledge of Laws, judges, eyewitness testimony, rules of evidence, drawn from a thousand years prior, are used today as the basis of Common Law and International Law — and they are not disproven as a hoax or religion, either. That knowledge has also been the basis of Western art, architecture, music, universities and libraries.
Christianity is all about one historical, eyewitnessed event -- the Bible that records all that, was never about 'religion' -- nor has it been ever since.



Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Spot On..!!! Grey5 Mar 16 #1
Religious addiction is killing us all and the planet. lindysalsagal Mar 16 #2
This is an outright divide and conquer right wing lie. ancianita Mar 16 #8
"53% of Democrats are Christian." ShazzieB Mar 16 #24
Not to mention... ancianita Mar 16 #27
Well stated! ShazzieB Mar 16 #36
Atheist here. BidenRocks Mar 16 #39
Former here. ancianita Mar 16 #41
Wow...that is horrible 😢 Moostache Mar 17 #49
Your interpretation is what's horrible. ancianita Mar 17 #50
5 million children die every year before they reach the age of five. Abolishinist Mar 17 #55
Ah, the good ol' Sam Harris argument. You're even quoting him. Yeah, I used to be a Four Horsemen atheist. ancianita Mar 17 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author Wifes husband Mar 18 #62
Not at all. ancianita Mar 19 #65
This message was self-deleted by its author Wifes husband Mar 19 #66
That's ridiculous. ancianita Mar 19 #67
This message was self-deleted by its author Wifes husband Mar 19 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author Wifes husband Mar 19 #69
As you are familiar with the "Four Horsemen," Abolishinist Mar 24 #73
Do you have Josh McDowell on speed dial? Hang out at the Discovery Institute lately? LOL.... Moostache Mar 17 #56
Though I wasn't posting to you, Moos, your thought process is brilliant, and I read you loud and clear. ancianita Mar 17 #59
Hell is other people. JPS. JanMichael Mar 17 #61
Your point is well taken Wifes husband Mar 19 #70
Imagine a world with no politics as well. Torchlight Mar 17 #53
If you are insulted because WE, THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD Conjuay Mar 17 #60
Study Art & Music History: all the church music, architecture, art of the Western Renaissance began the culture of the W Conjuay Mar 17 #58
Well, religion is the ruin of everything when it's shoved down someone's throat. mucholderthandirt Mar 20 #71
Jesus was the first to say all the things you say about religion, and not just his "Render unto Ceasar ancianita Mar 21 #72
It'd be a wonderful world if religious people would practice what their religion teaches. patphil Mar 16 #3
I think a lot of religions teach things like "An eye for an eye". erronis Mar 16 #6
Not so. Christianity's New Covenant teaches love your neighbor. You don't have to like them, but honor their humanity. ancianita Mar 16 #11
And many, many religions have some version of the "Golden Rule." ShazzieB Mar 16 #20
First they have to agree on what their religion teaches. Mariana Mar 17 #54
Brilliant. Actually, it doesn't work at all. Christians in prison in larger proportions than general population. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 16 #4
Yep, churches and church schools have the Ten Commandments posted all over the place. tanyev Mar 16 #5
Probably at a greater rate than in the non-religious population. erronis Mar 16 #7
Great 100th post! 😁 Hope22 Mar 16 #9
This is one reason why the separation of church and state is so important! ShazzieB Mar 16 #32
Separation of church and state Wifes husband Mar 18 #63
Sector 001 CentralBlueTexan Mar 16 #10
Their ignorance is on them. They are called to study the Word, and have hundreds of chances every ancianita Mar 16 #12
Funny thing is, they think the same about you. paleotn Mar 16 #16
Don't be fooled. No they don't. Not the Jesus Christians. They understand that every faith path is different, ancianita Mar 16 #21
If I will be forgiven for my sins... WestMichRad Mar 16 #13
Only if you share. rubbersole Mar 16 #14
LOL!! WestMichRad Mar 16 #15
The Protestant, "Get out of jail free" card. Catholics don't get that. paleotn Mar 16 #18
'Bout the only thing they don't get... rubbersole Mar 16 #26
The Catholic Church was the original christian church. ancianita Mar 16 #38
Nope. Repenting is an ongoing process in life, not a one-and-done thing. Jesus said that 19 times. ancianita Mar 16 #22
Isn't Rebl2 Mar 16 #17
Pretty much all Dr. T Mar 16 #19
Because human understanding is not enough. ancianita Mar 16 #23
God's word, Dr. T Mar 16 #25
When I was an atheist, I said the very things you say. That's your need-to-be-right human understanding. ancianita Mar 16 #28
All these intelligent theologians Dr. T Mar 16 #30
So you believe. I've read many theologians, male and female. But hey, you do you. ancianita Mar 16 #31
There is one god, and only one. Abolishinist Mar 16 #37
A priest once told me that no one should BlueKota Mar 16 #33
My mother (a real fundie) often told me that the Bible was inerrant.... lastlib Mar 16 #42
It's good she stopped trying to get you to accept her version. BlueKota Mar 16 #44
Actually, she nver stopped trying..... lastlib Mar 16 #46
why can't people just do the right thing without expecting some kind of reward in the end? Skittles Mar 17 #48
I don't think you need a promised reward BlueKota Mar 17 #51
Yeah if Catholic School is supposed to instill morality BlueKota Mar 16 #29
It does. Doesn't mean it always "takes," does it. That it doesn't in one example is no fair indictment. ancianita Mar 16 #34
Maybe because your classmate was an ass? 😉 ShazzieB Mar 16 #35
The problem is that too many followers of religion love_katz Mar 16 #43
If religion and faith works for you, that's great. Morbius Mar 16 #40
I like your rules. BlueKota Mar 16 #45
Religion is a two edged sword. Aussie105 Mar 17 #47
religion simply is not required to be a good person Skittles Mar 18 #64
Maybe it's not a matter of morality but a matter of control using morality as a useful tool. Norrrm Mar 17 #52
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»You first need to explain...»Reply #50