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Ms. Toad

(38,062 posts)
66. AI can certainly be used without much creativity.
Wed May 7, 2025, 09:39 PM
May 2025

I never claimed it was always used creatively.

You, on the other hand, are claiming it is NEVER creative. I have described a way in which it can be used creatively as a substitute for the sketching process of ideation.

When you claim an absolute, as you have, a single example - such as the one I have given - disproves. it.

As for your specifics - you seem to be deliberately trivializing the process of using AI by focusing solely on the output of a single prompt, and minimizing how it can be used as a tool in the creative process.

As I noted earlier, generating dozens of sketches is a standard part of a typical part of the ideation process in beginning an art project - but for some of us the process of creating sketches by drawing by hand is not a simple dump of the image in our mind to the paper, because there is no image in our minds. It is a time consuming process which makes it nearly useless for the purposes for which it is intended at that stage of development. AI is a tool which can be used to quickly generate a concrete examples of the ideation. It is the ideation that is the creation - including reducing that idea to a a rough visual, whether by sketching or describing it textually (with or without using AI). Selecting images, from among the many generated which (1) are a close match to what was in your mind and (2) are artistically composed - or even which prompt ideas for different compositions are essential elements of the creative process - which draws inspiration from a number of sources.

If the images generated omits parts of the prompt that the artist wanted included, those can be painted in in later iterations or may be included (or not) in a final art piece which may be rendered entirely in the artist's hand. Or, by viewing the generated options, the artist may discover that the composition is more pleasing without those elements - again that requires a human creative assessment, whether those sketches are rendered by the artist's hand or by the artist using a tool (AI - or a camera).

Giving an artist a prompt and paying them to create a painting is more analogous to one of the many ways that generative AI can be used with virtually no creativity. But my point is that AI can be used in ways that ARE creative - whereas your position is that using AI in art is never creative.

There is nothing new in art - and re-envisioning or appropriation (of your own work or that of others) in a different media or using different tools is an essential part of the foundational skills taught in art school and used by the best artists. For example, dozens of well respected artists (including Picasso) have appropriated Manet's "Luncheon in the Grass."

Aside from anything I personally believe, I am currently in a NASAD accredited art school, roughly 1/3 of the way to earning a BFA. There are classes in which I am strongly encouraged - and some in which I will be required - to use AI. A session at NASAD's upcoming annual meeting focuses on the uses of AI in art education:

With an emphasis on creativity and self-expression, this session will examine strategies for using Artificial Intelligence (AI) in studio art and design courses. Aware of concerns that the use of AI might diminish student performance, purposeful strategic decisions pertaining to pedagogy can position the artist/designer to embrace AI as a productive tool employed to enhance creative processes. Attendees will explore issues such as course requirements and associated expectations regarding outcomes that may assist them to design and implement approaches that incorporate applications of AI in the studio.


https://nasad.arts-accredit.org/sessions-and-events/

As for the assessments of others in the arts:

National Arts Education Assessment:

AI can be a useful resource for visual arts educators and their students, augmenting their teaching methods and encouraging student experimentation, including, but not limited to the following::

AI software can assist students in generating initial concepts, ideation, enhancing digital design skills, and experimenting with different artistic elements.
AI can offer students a platform to explore their creativity, fostering innovation and critical thinking skills.
AI can support teachers in lesson and material development, and support differentiating curriculum through providing translations, closed captioning, and other resources.
AI can be a powerful tool to assist all students of varying abilities.


You will note that the first point is essentially what I described as a substitute for sketching. (And I had not previously read this document)

From the Arts Education Partnership quarterly meeting:

Another comparison was made between AI art and photography. At the time of its invention, photography was a revolutionary and unknown medium that was discounted for its seeming lack of artistry. However, photography is a medium that requires practiced technical skill from the artist to capture beautiful and thought-provoking images. AI will change the art sphere and it will take time for others to learn how to use the technology effectively. However, it is a tool, just like photography and remixing.


Another connection I often mention - the initial disparaging of photography as devoid of any creative merit, to the acceptance that it is indeed art.

I am not making the argument that ALL uses of AI in artistic endeavors is creative or artistic. Simply that some are, and there is a place for its use in art education and beyond.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bookmarking for reading later Demovictory9 May 2025 #1
For upper division courses, my wife... Happy Hoosier May 2025 #2
Good for her. And the teachers I've discussed this with know that oral exams (or a talk with the student highplainsdem May 2025 #20
I have long wondered why professors PoindexterOglethorpe May 2025 #3
Probably too time consuming for professors womanofthehills May 2025 #8
I think some do. My daughter has to submit her rough drafts Bristlecone May 2025 #45
I did that TimeToGo May 2025 #47
What makes you think they don't? Happy Hoosier May 2025 #72
Don't forget--this cheating will impact those who enter medical school, law school and others... hlthe2b May 2025 #4
I agree completely. highplainsdem May 2025 #41
Actually- the info on these sites including Groc is amazing womanofthehills May 2025 #5
I haven't used AI much, but when I was writing a paper EdmondDantes_ May 2025 #10
Sometimes AI educates you about an ignorance you didn't know you had. Lucky Luciano May 2025 #35
I remember you praising Grok before (it isn't Groc; never heard of an AI named Groc, but Twitter/X has Grok). highplainsdem May 2025 #12
As to using a chatbot for school assignments - Ms. Toad May 2025 #27
I've seen surveys of students indicating that most of them do consider the use of AI highplainsdem May 2025 #32
What the student thinks isn't relevant to whether it is cheating or not. Ms. Toad May 2025 #43
There's nothing truly artistic or creative in having an image generator spit out lots of options and highplainsdem May 2025 #50
You needn't be stunned. Ms. Toad May 2025 #53
I've played with image generators. I know how little control words give the AI user over the image created by highplainsdem May 2025 #60
AI can certainly be used without much creativity. Ms. Toad May 2025 #66
I don't disparage photography and never have. But I consider genAI unethical, antithetical to creativity, highplainsdem May 2025 #67
You are mixing arguments. Ms. Toad May 2025 #69
Photography would never have been considered art if, instead of capturing an image of what's in front of it, highplainsdem May 2025 #70
You are being very clear that your understanding of AI as part of the creative process is as simplistic, Ms. Toad May 2025 #74
A camera captures an image of something real in front of the camera. It captures and records highplainsdem May 2025 #75
If you've never tried to generate an artistic image via an AI prompt, you might want to give it a try LearnedHand May 2025 #59
I've used image generators. And I know that no matter what the prompt is, it not only doesn't provide highplainsdem May 2025 #61
I read a good reply to this article by Jacob T. Levy on bluesky senseandsensibility May 2025 #6
Yes. There've been recommendations of going back to handwritten exams using blue books since highplainsdem May 2025 #15
I have to wonder if some professors are resistant to this because senseandsensibility May 2025 #19
And some teachers think they should be allowed to use AI to grade their students. Sigh. highplainsdem May 2025 #21
It's not a matter of being allowed to use AI to grade their students - Ms. Toad May 2025 #36
My daughter just took finals in college on a blue book Pisces May 2025 #31
Glad to hear it. highplainsdem May 2025 #33
The old blue book method Stuckinthebush May 2025 #17
I think so senseandsensibility May 2025 #22
Unless you're Trump, then each of your ghostwriters and test-takers can have 20 pencils. JustABozoOnThisBus May 2025 #29
Not true - he said 5 pencils... Dan May 2025 #34
Lots of kids now can only print by hand, and slowly. highplainsdem May 2025 #24
Kick SheltieLover May 2025 #7
Ask ChatGPT what to do about that problem bucolic_frolic May 2025 #9
It isn't "theirs" and can never be theirs if they're just altering what a chatbot gave them. highplainsdem May 2025 #13
I just took a continuing JBTaurus83 May 2025 #11
Instructors like that are cheating their students. highplainsdem May 2025 #14
What's the value in that class? WhiskeyGrinder May 2025 #16
I agree JBTaurus83 May 2025 #37
The future of America is being made from the ignorance of so called instructors like this. live love laugh May 2025 #42
None whatsoever, but . . . HoneyAndLocusts May 2025 #62
I've heard that one tell for AI is AI likes to use dashes in their writing, like colleagues--especially & power--have FSogol May 2025 #71
Seems foolish to invest in college and not mzmolly May 2025 #18
Some kids believe only the degree is important, and not how you got it. highplainsdem May 2025 #25
No surprise here misanthrope May 2025 #23
I was a GTA about 25 years ago . . . hatrack May 2025 #30
By 25 years ago, TV was already taking.up more of kids' time than it had been 10-20 years earlier. highplainsdem May 2025 #38
some of the slide predates AI cab67 May 2025 #26
You sound like a real teacher, not just a placeholder standing in front of a class. Bravo. erronis May 2025 #28
vertebrate diversity, evolution, paleontology cab67 May 2025 #46
My natural OCD helped me glide through college Random Boomer May 2025 #40
I did that, too. badhair77 May 2025 #63
We need to go back to blue book exams in person. SidneyR May 2025 #39
Professors are using AI to grade papers. It's pathetic. nt SunSeeker May 2025 #44
As John Stossel said thirtyish years ago on 20//20 "Cheating is good" Clouds Passing May 2025 #48
I am a teacher. Balatro May 2025 #49
I used multiple choice questions and scantrons but I write the questions and badhair77 May 2025 #64
The worst part is, THEY DON'T CARE. LisaM May 2025 #51
Neil deGrasse Tyson said something I'll never forget ybbor May 2025 #52
there is the incentive to pile up degrees and credentials to get a jump in the hiring process Demovictory9 May 2025 #54
"I spend so much time on TikTok," she said. "Hours and hours, until my eyes start hurting, which makes it hard to plan Demovictory9 May 2025 #55
AI is going to take many of their jobs madville May 2025 #56
this is kind of hilarious: students in her Ethics and Tech class used AI to respond to "Briefly introduce yourself and Demovictory9 May 2025 #57
"Massive numbers of students are going to emerge from university with degrees, and into the workforce, who are essentia Demovictory9 May 2025 #58
It's so depressing that it has been happening so fast. I knew it would hurt education, but didn't expect highplainsdem May 2025 #65
i hated papers, but i almost always did fresh subjects, art school for sure. cannibalism in hs. habbit or acquired taste pansypoo53219 May 2025 #68
There are ways to adjust to the new environment ecstatic May 2025 #73
US Colleges are archaic so perhaps this will finally prompt them to update GreatGazoo May 2025 #76
I think we're rapidly heading to the point Diraven May 2025 #77
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