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pat_k

(12,628 posts)
67. And as the spell breaks for some, let's extend a little grace.
Sat Jul 12, 2025, 07:43 PM
Jul 2025

No forgiveness in advance, but I firmly believe the "never forgive, never forget" sentiment and shaming, hateful rhetoric directed at 47 voters that is so widespread is seriously problematic. As long as MAGA as a cult, or a MAGA individual, is immorally attacking our core values, we must defend ourselves and be loud and proud about what those values are. But I wish more of us would learn to do it without the rhetorical violence against "them."

Food for thought on understanding the cult and some closing advice from Jayne Converse in this short 5 min video:

....Shame is too powerful, so they double-down, like trump does. Some trump supporters know deep down they've been conned. They've seen the cruelty, the corruption, the chaos, but they've already invested years of their indentity into defending him. To walk away now would mean confronting shame, losing their community, admitting they were wrong. And that is terrifying to them. So instead, they dig in deeper...

Not everyone in that cult is unreachable. Some are too far gone. Some are on the edge. Quiet. Doubting. Hurting. We don't get them back with facts. We get them back by offering something Trump never will: real community, real care, and real solutions... Offer people a way out that doesn't begin with shame, but with dignity... This fight isn't just about defeating Trump. It's about breaking the spell and building something better in its place.


Points along the same lines were made by Sarah McBride (1st trans U.S. Congressperson) in an interview shortly after she was sworn in.

...This country is still at a trans 101 spot... Leaders should always be out front of public opinion, but in order to foster change in public opinion we've got to be within arms distance of the public, so we can pull the along with us. If we get too out ahead of it we lose our grip and are unable to pull the public along with us... There is a space for diversity of messengers, and a diversity of message... What we do know is that as the movement for marriage equality moved forward, the most effective messengers for marriage were not same sex couples, were not parents of same sex couples or kids of same sex couples, the most effective messengers for marriage equality were those that evolved. They were effective because they gave a permission structure for people who had not yet gotten there that it was ok to be uncomfortable, it was ok to be on the other side of the issue. You were not a bad person, you weren't wrong. And by giving people permission to be wrong, it created the space and grace for people to grow. We need more grace in our politics if we want people to actually grow...

We are shooting ourselves in the foot as people who believe in progress when we create no incentive for people to grow because they perceive they will be permanently guilty for having been wrong. We create no space for them to grow by extending no grace for them to walk there...

One of the reasons you see people pushed into their respective corners -- you say something that's deemed problematic. And you are immediately hounded by one side and immediately embraced by the other side. Human nature is -- when faced with that degree of extreme binary reactions is to go to the people who are validating you instantaneously. So we unintentionally push people further and further into their own corners and into their negative opinion by responding with a degree of condemnation and vitriol that creates no incentive or space for them to grow...


NVC (Marshall Rosenberg's non-violent communication) skills can be useful. It's not specifically designed for communicating with cult adherents or across ideological divides, but the principles are powerful in all sorts of conflict resolution situations. There are NVC practice groups online and in some locations, in person.





Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bit by bit and then ... suddenly. The "tipping point" has not been reached yet. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2025 #1
This Epstein thing may have legs. These two creeps were besties for a decade. Joinfortmill Jul 2025 #34
There's no honor among thieves The Blue Flower Jul 2025 #2
Elon will tell Trump's secrets milestogo Jul 2025 #3
Yea, 5 years from now. kacekwl Jul 2025 #7
lmfao ZDU Jul 2025 #9
This right here ms liberty Jul 2025 #10
And when he finally b passes away The Madcap Jul 2025 #4
I hope it's soon AverageOldGuy Jul 2025 #8
My friend is worried that if he dies, he will become a martyr. tavernier Jul 2025 #12
Most of the country will be singing... milestogo Jul 2025 #13
In the GOP, there are a hundred wicked witches waiting to take his place mdbl Jul 2025 #19
Will the cult follow President Vance? ninjanurse Jul 2025 #25
I don't think he has the same "charm" as TSF. milestogo Jul 2025 #28
I agree. I've thought that all along. NH Ethylene Jul 2025 #48
J.D. Vance is effortlessly abrasive. milestogo Jul 2025 #50
but the cult likes that. mdbl Jul 2025 #54
I personally don't think so. HeartsCanHope Jul 2025 #58
I doubt it. The Madcap Jul 2025 #63
i will be singing the ding dong song myself if he croaks in office . AllaN01Bear Jul 2025 #20
That party will dwarf the 2020 election celebration IbogaProject Jul 2025 #15
Interesting theory. Iggo Jul 2025 #42
What Does That Mean Though? ProfessorGAC Jul 2025 #52
Not "on his casket"! ChazInAz Jul 2025 #81
All the 'good Americans' Joinfortmill Jul 2025 #35
Hopefully we'll all still be here to counter their lies! HeartsCanHope Jul 2025 #57
Yes, we can hope PatSeg Jul 2025 #5
I agree. Incompetence inevitably leads to disaster. Martin68 Jul 2025 #6
Remove Joan, Insert Donnie... ZDU Jul 2025 #11
This is priceless! Joinfortmill Jul 2025 #36
Yes, yes indeed! ZDU Jul 2025 #46
I'm feeling like the outrage of what the orange Hitler is doing is going to come to a head and people kimbutgar Jul 2025 #14
He's going to lose "the cult" when the Epstein documents are revealed FakeNoose Jul 2025 #16
Ha! ROFL. Joinfortmill Jul 2025 #38
Every last one of them could disappear from the Earth and not be missed Orrex Jul 2025 #17
I have no hope mdbl Jul 2025 #18
Also, it is a cult built on a foundation of LIES Martin Eden Jul 2025 #21
Speaking of cults, Nazi Germany didn't crumble for good until April, 1945 . . . . hatrack Jul 2025 #47
True, and there are similarities between the Fascism of Hitler and Trump Martin Eden Jul 2025 #55
You hit on the classic irony DFW Jul 2025 #75
You summed it up very well in two sentences Martin Eden Jul 2025 #78
His actions at times lead to suspicions of exactly that DFW Jul 2025 #80
Sometimes it doesn't collapse until the country is turned into rubble LS0999 Jul 2025 #22
Yup, let's hope there's a permanent intervention before that occurs. Joinfortmill Jul 2025 #40
And in our case, there's no one to save us from ourselves The Madcap Jul 2025 #64
To borrow an idea from Honest Abe Lincoln... ProudMNDemocrat Jul 2025 #23
Last week would be nice! niyad Jul 2025 #24
I really hope the cult of Trump goes full purple koolaid. lapfog_1 Jul 2025 #26
Well, let's see: Branch Davidians went out in blaze of "glory"; Heaven's Gate - suicides,; People's Temple - AnotherMother4Peace Jul 2025 #27
Fascists Are Ouroboros MayReasonRule Jul 2025 #29
Wow, that is a great word! milestogo Jul 2025 #32
The Gnostics Understood The Difference Between Religion And Mythology MayReasonRule Jul 2025 #51
PBS is rerunning Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" with Bill Moyers. llmart Jul 2025 #62
I Have A Hardback Copy Of Transformations Of Myth Through Time And A Softback Of The Hero With A Thousand Faces MayReasonRule Jul 2025 #65
Here's some "extra-credit" reading when you get to the episode.... pat_k Jul 2025 #68
Thanks. llmart Jul 2025 #70
Thank you for posting that, I was just about to look up the word ouroboros Meadowoak Jul 2025 #76
This is true Hey Joe Jul 2025 #53
Unfortunately, when they reach that tipping point of no return ... aggiesal Jul 2025 #30
The Moonies still exist, murielm99 Jul 2025 #31
I sure as hell hope so. Trump and his band of traitors are doing a good job of taking our federal government down. Joinfortmill Jul 2025 #33
I wish this were true angrychair Jul 2025 #37
Other observations the different maga cult. Duncanpup Jul 2025 #39
Whew moose65 Jul 2025 #41
Foreign Enemies May Exploit Such A Collapse 2na fisherman Jul 2025 #43
Yes, you are right. Haggard Celine Jul 2025 #77
Kick SheltieLover Jul 2025 #44
I just plowed through this- BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #45
Kremlinology is pointless when staring down the barrel JCMach1 Jul 2025 #49
I certainly hope so, too! HeartsCanHope Jul 2025 #56
The only glue holding it together is hate tied to money. ananda Jul 2025 #59
I believe the cult will collapse from its own weight. It will take a number of people with it though, Linda ladeewolf Jul 2025 #60
It takes intelligence, rules, laws to make any system work bucolic_frolic Jul 2025 #61
I have zero doubt they will implode Skittles Jul 2025 #66
And as the spell breaks for some, let's extend a little grace. pat_k Jul 2025 #67
I think it has to be a bit of an awakening mountain grammy Jul 2025 #69
Dunno. We've had bumper crops of crooks, liars, and m-fuggin morons in recent years struggle4progress Jul 2025 #71
But what happens when the cult has the support (tacit or explicit) of most of the media... progressoid Jul 2025 #72
I recall all this kind of "the end is near" "another shoe dropped" talk during his #45 term. C Moon Jul 2025 #73
I think it already has collapsed. ReRe Jul 2025 #74
When we garner the courage to stand against a half-wit criminal dlilafae Jul 2025 #79
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