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cab67

(3,741 posts)
Sat Dec 6, 2025, 01:05 PM Dec 2025

What's happening in Norman is an outrage. [View all]

Last edited Sat Dec 6, 2025, 07:08 PM - Edit history (2)

First, some disclosure - I have connections to the University of Oklahoma. My maternal grandparents were both OU alums, and I still have relatives living in the OKC and Norman areas. My mother, in spite of having gone to the University of Kansas, was a lifelong Sooner fan. It caused a conflict when I went to the University of Texas for graduate school.

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Some of you have no doubt followed this story. An OU student was asked to critique an article in her psychology class that discussed the interplay between transgender youth and peer pressure. She and her classmates were given very specific instructions to follow when writing their critique.

She followed none of them. Instead, her response was a straight-up sermon on why her interpretation of the Bible sets fixed genders we're required to follow.

She got a 0 on the paper. And the instructor went way above and beyond by providing a lengthy explanation for why the paper earned no points. The instructor made it clear that the student's opinions, in and of themselves, were irrelevant. The problem was the student's disregard for the instructions she was provided. This instructor also asked another instructor to evaluate the paper, and the second instructor concurred.

Did the student sit down with the instructor to discuss the result? Nope. She screamed from the highest heights about being persecuted. She even wrote to the governor of Oklahoma. State legislators have spoken up, and most of them have come across as seriously uninformed about the issue. Worse, OU appears to be backing down, even putting the instructor on leave.

Here's the thing - the student wasn't dinged because of her opinions. She was dinged because she didn't follow the instructions. Don't believe me? Both the article assigned to the class and the student's paper can be viewed online, as can the instructor's response to the student explaining the score. Any objective reader can see that the student simply didn't follow instructions - none of which, by the way, required a student to agree with anything in the article.

I've been approached by students who've expressed discomfort at some of the subjects I teach, either for political or religious reasons. Here's what I tell them - I can't require any student to actually believe or agree with anything I say. I can only require that they understand it. Hence, if I ask a question about evolution or climate change and the student simply puts down "I don't believe in this stuff, it's an atheistic or communist lie," I'd mark it wrong. But if the student says "I don't believe in this stuff, it's an atheistic or communist lie, but the answer you're looking for is the following...." and then proceeds to provide the correct answer, that's full credit. I hold students accountable for how well they grasp what I'm teaching, not for their personal beliefs about it.

I understand the pressure universities are under - especially in red states. I teach at a public university in a red state. Still, I would have hoped that in this case, the president of OU, Joseph Harroz, could have been a voice of clarity and honesty. He could have defended the professionalism of the instructor, who went way beyond what most instructors would have done to cover her bases and make the reasons for the zero-credit assessment fully clear and transparent. He could have explained that OU is a public university open to students of all faiths, and that free expression of that faith is the right of every student, but that students are still expected to be, you know, students. That means following instructions on assignments if they want to succeed. It doesn't mean holding back on their views - had I been the instructor, I'd have been totally cool if this student had added a paragraph explaining why they firmly believe sexes to be strictly binary and fixed - but it does mean facing views that differ from yours and addressing them not as abominations to be dismissed without reason, but as concepts that should be handled with deliberation and thought.

And it goes without saying that OU should reinstate this instructor and provide a huge apology to her.

Those who are claiming a student who didn't follow instructions is being persecuted only for her beliefs are doing her no favors whatsoever.

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The race for stupidity is led by MAGA. If the MAGA Nazis take full control anyone with an education is at risk. dem4decades Dec 2025 #1
To be fair... cab67 Dec 2025 #2
I wasn't calling her stupid, though she may be, I'm calling a movement that politicizes science stupid. dem4decades Dec 2025 #4
righto cab67 Dec 2025 #5
I'd send her to the school psychologist or slightlv Dec 2025 #37
And just like a lot of religions, AND corporations, popsdenver Dec 2025 #8
I've always thought the monotone drone of the orange oaf is also a form of hypnotizing... blue_jay Dec 2025 #28
Be sure to include popsdenver Dec 2025 #30
Was the student in question BOSSHOG Dec 2025 #3
This x1000!!! slightlv Dec 2025 #38
Very badly written essay, full of circular logic, no evidence cited IronLionZion Dec 2025 #6
And no student in college level essay or research writing is allowed to use the Bible as a reference, only ancianita Dec 2025 #11
MAGAts do their own research, on Youtube or blogs or podcasts IronLionZion Dec 2025 #35
maybe they'll go real deep Quanto Magnus Dec 2025 #51
That's not an essay. That's a carnival tent sermon. n/t DFW Dec 2025 #17
Sure looks like a set up to me, just a wee bit too convenient to be otherwise nt blue_jay Dec 2025 #29
The brainwashing of women in christian communities is thriving blue_jay Dec 2025 #31
God wrote it. It's God's will! IronLionZion Dec 2025 #33
She wasn't failed for "quoting the Bible." Insert eyeroll here. n/t Beartracks Dec 2025 #42
Correct. TPUSA lied in their headline post and posted the evidence of their lies IronLionZion Dec 2025 #44
I like how the headline says it was an "opinion essay" -- when the assignment was NOT for that! Beartracks Dec 2025 #53
OU has now removed a SECOND instructor KatyaR Dec 2025 #7
"Forget it, Jake. It's Oklahoma." regnaD kciN Dec 2025 #18
The Standard MAGA One Verse Beat Down is.... Mustellus Dec 2025 #9
More to the point... regnaD kciN Dec 2025 #20
Hmm, interesting point. "Male and female"... Beartracks Dec 2025 #43
Congrats on your decision to do grad work at UT. (nt) Paladin Dec 2025 #10
OU's president was a former intern of David Boren! SouthBayDem Dec 2025 #12
to be as fair as I can be.... cab67 Dec 2025 #23
Thanks for pointing this out ShazzieB Dec 2025 #25
It is happening at The University of Oklahoma in Norman, not Oklahoma State. redstatebluegirl Dec 2025 #67
Yes, I know. ShazzieB Dec 2025 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Dec 2025 #13
Good Lord (so to speak) DET Dec 2025 #14
She's pre-med (believe it or not)... regnaD kciN Dec 2025 #21
I hope no medical school accepts her IzzaNuDay Dec 2025 #66
i read her paper. barbtries Dec 2025 #15
Saw Kyle Kulinski cover this D_Master81 Dec 2025 #16
Why is she even in a pysch class? Psychology, to these people, is simply a modern day excuse for demons. slightlv Dec 2025 #39
Required. Jilly_in_VA Dec 2025 #45
Boy, things sure changed since I was in school! slightlv Dec 2025 #52
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Dec 2025 #19
My wife is computer science professor in a red state Diraven Dec 2025 #22
In defense of soldierant Dec 2025 #24
That means they'd have to go beyond what their parents slightlv Dec 2025 #40
?Rxactly. But I can dream, can't I? soldierant Dec 2025 #41
So any student can answer exam questions and write papers full of Bible BS. Irish_Dem Dec 2025 #26
i may have been a smart ass in school rampartd Dec 2025 #27
K&R Solly Mack Dec 2025 #32
Good luck with a science based career like medicine. 3catwoman3 Dec 2025 #34
As one being born in OK, but now a long-term MO resident, this disappoints me terribly about how OK is viewed. SWBTATTReg Dec 2025 #36
Why do I feel like Jilly_in_VA Dec 2025 #46
Yup. Wednesdays Dec 2025 #58
Maybe she's been selected as President JD Vance's replacement wife Nt lostnfound Dec 2025 #62
I agree with you. Sparkly Dec 2025 #47
Did you apply to other programs? cab67 Dec 2025 #48
No. Sparkly Dec 2025 #50
Admissions decisions aren't always up to a potential advisor. cab67 Dec 2025 #55
Oklahoma is a lost cause Puppyjive Dec 2025 #49
maddening. the inmates are running the asylum Takket Dec 2025 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author jfz9580m Dec 2025 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author jfz9580m Dec 2025 #57
I'm not going to claim I know how to write a college paper since I never went to college, but.... tornado34jh Dec 2025 #59
The key is, make your tests challenging enough so AdamGG Dec 2025 #60
I received my PhD from OU róisín_dubh Dec 2025 #61
from my reading markie Dec 2025 #63
Hemant Mehta of The Friendly Atheist did a deeper dive on this... ColoradoHoosier Dec 2025 #64
Thank you cab67. Stay strong. Clouds Passing Dec 2025 #65
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