Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

eppur_se_muova

(41,762 posts)
29. Whose tradition ? Which society ? The idea that there's only ONE mutually agreed on POV is bullshit from the beginning.
Wed Mar 11, 2026, 03:20 AM
Wednesday

We have never been a monolithic, or even monochrome, society. It's a stretch to even use the word "we" because there's no agreement on who is included in "we", "us", or more sinisterly, "them".

I know one thing: we are not united by religion. During the years of heaviest European colonization, most immigrants to the Eastern seaboard were Protestants of one stripe or another, and those stripes did not wear well together. Go to any Southern town and you'll see multiple churches -- many of them small congregations in former storefronts or malls -- with no affiliation to any larger institution. Splitting into smaller and smaller sub-denominations has been going on for centuries, and the larger umbrella organizations are mostly losing membership. So no church or denomination in this country can claim to represent a majority -- each represents only a (usually) small, and shrinking, minority.

The best news I can see is that other OECD countries are losing their god-botherers faster than the US, which is a good motivation for relocating to one.

Beyond searching for a pre-fabricated, one-size-fits-all role in society, people need to be creating and shaping their own roles. Each of us can have multiple roles, and those roles may be widely shared, or unique to ourselves. I certainly don't see myself as bound by any single role -- not as a man, or as anything else. I can't see that democracy requires any such limits, or is at well-served by them.

Those who advocate for "traditional roles" should read more about heavily traditional societies -- Confucian, say, or "Islamist" (meaning more fundamental, less liberal than "Islam" generally). It's thoroughly depressing reading. The word "moribund", however frequently used, is never overused in such contexts. You are literally born into your role(s) in society (a brick knows its place in the wall, is a traditional metaphor) and there is very little room to change, particularly if you're not born to one of the elites. Change is always treated w/suspicion, and "improvement" outside of the accepted parameters an utterly alien concept. Pretty much the opposite of attitudes commonly and openly expressed by much of the American public, largely since its founding, and particularly since the emergence of universal suffrage (to use an old-fashioned term).

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Thank you for putting up the good fight! chowder66 Tuesday #1
REAL men do not need to dominate women Skittles Tuesday #2
I have two daughters and one son Quiet Em Wednesday #17
thank you Skittles Wednesday #27
Righteous rant, maxranb.. Permanut Tuesday #3
Male entitlement is not universal. That's a lie patriarchal warrior societies tell us. hunter Wednesday #11
Point taken.. Permanut Wednesday #25
Catholic? Iris Tuesday #4
You haven't met enough evangelicals and fundamentalists, if you'd guess that. pnwmom Wednesday #16
There is currently a trend of men like JD Vance covering any engraving Opus Dei style Iris Thursday #38
True. Evangelical converts are trying to take over via Opus Dei. pnwmom Thursday #39
So well said. I wonder what reactions you'll find among the group as time goes on. enough Tuesday #5
What does a Men's Group normally talk about? leftstreet Tuesday #6
Too often it's a pity party. hunter Wednesday #13
yes, I'd like to know that too Skittles Wednesday #15
For the most part, we talk about scripture, life and raise funds for charity maxrandb Wednesday #32
Scott Galloway talks about role of men as being that of a protector. applegrove Tuesday #7
yeah they SAY that Skittles Wednesday #14
No. Being a man means being responsible for the welfare applegrove Wednesday #20
huh? Skittles Wednesday #22
Being an adult, male or female means being responsible for those applegrove Wednesday #24
that is just being a decent human being Skittles Wednesday #26
Yes. applegrove Wednesday #28
And what do women need protecting from? Other men. Coventina Wednesday #18
With marriage literally a protection racket, not to mention valleyrogue Wednesday #35
Agree. And I say this as someone who is married for the reasons you outline. Coventina Wednesday #36
Galloway is a misogynist blaming women for men's dysfunction. 617Blue Wednesday #34
Western culture is male-dominated and focuses on blame rather than accountability and responsibility. usonian Wednesday #8
Thank you for your reply. nt Ilsa Wednesday #10
"Don't be an asshole" is a good basic place to begin. 3catwoman3 Wednesday #9
Patriarchy Tesha Wednesday #12
Hope there are more men's groups KT2000 Wednesday #19
My question would be: popsdenver Wednesday #21
yup Skittles Wednesday #23
Its much more nuanced than that maxrandb Wednesday #33
Whose tradition ? Which society ? The idea that there's only ONE mutually agreed on POV is bullshit from the beginning. eppur_se_muova Wednesday #29
So what answer did you get? flvegan Wednesday #30
yes Skittles Wednesday #31
I hate the word "traditional". To me it means put you in a mold and keep you there." efhmc Wednesday #37
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Heated discussion at my c...»Reply #29