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Disaffected

(6,596 posts)
108. "renewables" are less than 10% of China's primary energy..."
Thu May 14, 2026, 12:30 PM
May 14

Source?

Whether or not Australia for instance continues to export fossil fuels is not relevant to their reductions in emissions they have achieved via solar energy.

I'm curious why you as well as resident self-proclaimed experts think solar and wind should be discarded for nuclear when:

. the waste disposal problem has no good solution

. the cost and build lead times of nuclear energy is significantly higher than the alternatives:

..............

As of early 2026, utility-scale solar and onshore wind remain the most affordable sources of new energy generation globally, while new nuclear installations are significantly more expensive.

The most common metric for comparing these costs is the Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE), which represents the average cost per megawatt-hour (MWh) over the lifetime of a plant, including construction, operation, and fuel.2025-2026 Cost Comparison (Unsubsidized)According to data from the EIA's 2025/2026 Outlook and Lazard's LCOE+, the typical cost ranges are:

Technology"

Estimated LCOE (USD/MWh)Primary Cost Drivers:

Utility Solar PV$30 – $65Low hardware costs; high land/permitting speed.

Onshore Wind$35 – $80High turbine efficiency; site-specific wind quality.

Offshore Wind$85 – $150Complex marine installation and transmission.

Advanced Nuclear$80 – $170+Extreme capital costs; long construction timelines.

Key Financial Differences:

1. Capital Expenditure (CapEx) vs. Operating Costs:

Nuclear: Has "very high" upfront costs. Building a new plant can take 10–15 years and cost billions, leading to high interest and financing expenses. However, its operating costs are relatively low once the plant is online.

Solar/Wind: Have significantly lower upfront costs and essentially zero fuel costs. They can be built and connected to the grid in months or a few years.

2. "Firming" and System Costs

While the generation cost of solar and wind is lower, they are intermittent. To provide the same reliability as nuclear (which is "dispatchable" or "baseload&quot , they often require:

Battery Storage: Adding storage can increase the effective LCOE of renewables by $20–$50/MWh.

Grid Upgrades: Renewables often require extensive new transmission lines to move power from windy/sunny remote areas to cities.3.

Recent Trends:

Nuclear Rebound: Despite the high cost, investment in nuclear has risen by 50% over the last five years, driven by the need for carbon-free baseload power and interest in Small Modular Reactors (SMRs), which aim to lower costs through factory-style manufacturing.

Renewable Maturity: After decades of rapid price drops, the "low end" costs for solar and wind have stabilized recently due to higher interest rates and supply chain pressures for materials like copper and steel.

Summary: If the goal is the lowest cost per unit of energy produced, solar and wind win decisively. If the goal is grid stability without fossil fuels, nuclear is often viewed as a necessary, albeit much more expensive, partner in a diversified energy portfolio.

.......................

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the above - it is what Gemini chugs out but it seems reasonable.

I guess the ultimate best solution is fusion power but who knows if/when that will happen.

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

OMFG Chicagogrl1 May 13 #1
MTG got ridiculed for saying the same thing... regnaD kciN May 13 #2
He's never seen the solar path lights they sell in the stores dalton99a May 13 #3
I have four different sets of them in my garden and by my door. niyad May 13 #11
Thanks for that. I don't have outside outlets and would like to have lights outside. Just hadn't thought it through Amaryllis May 13 #75
You are most welcome. There are so many kinds available. Have fun choosing! niyad May 13 #76
Costco has had some pretty ones in the past. AllyCat May 13 #86
Dollar store even has them NHvet May 14 #105
Burgum wanting a rational discussion on subject he doesn't understand. txwhitedove May 13 #4
you can't understand something when your livelihood depends on ignorance DBoon May 13 #23
... eppur_se_muova May 13 #58
He understands it. He misinforms, gaslights, obfuscates, lies by design. LuvLoogie May 13 #61
Sinclair Lewis understood Burgum's ilk charliea May 13 #66
He cannot possibly be this stupid mcar May 13 #5
Of course he can! Why do you think the puppeteers chose him? niyad May 13 #7
He, like the rest of the minions, sold his soul to TSF mcar May 13 #9
You are assuming that they had souls to sell? niyad May 13 #12
Good point mcar May 13 #54
Disagree! Ray Bruns May 14 #95
He is not stupid. Disingenuous yes but stupid he is not. Botany May 14 #101
One of two things is true of Burgum meow2u3 May 13 #6
He could be that dumb, and still helping to line the pockets of the niyad May 13 #8
Extraction, vulture capitalism's engine burns fossil fuel Magoo48 May 13 #42
He seriously just might be that dumb Seinan Sensei May 13 #49
Both could be true... AZ8theist May 14 #92
Actually, the belief that batteries are sustainable is... NNadir May 13 #10
What are suggesting instead? MadameButterfly May 13 #15
I willingly take some flak for my position that there is... NNadir May 13 #19
Nuclear has a role to play liberalgunwilltravel May 13 #22
I am an expert on this topic, having studied it for decades. NNadir May 13 #25
Nuclear is fine as part of the solution liberalgunwilltravel May 13 #28
I am always asked this question, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. NNadir May 13 #36
For the uninitiated (like me), DME stands for dimethyl ether. TheRickles May 13 #52
I do not support DME from dangerous natural gas. As is the case with hydrogen itself, exergy is destroyed under... NNadir May 13 #55
I heard that we can't produce the steel needed for SMRs anymore. SonOfNebanaube May 13 #79
Chornobyl converted me from being an uneducated antinuke to a well educated nuclear advocate. NNadir May 14 #93
If you remember the remark made by the nonscientist, Louis Strauss, the "bad guy" in the movie Oppenheimer... NNadir May 14 #94
What about them? Boo1 May 15 #114
I've been down this road MadameButterfly May 15 #120
The finest minds of the 21st century understand that nuclear energy is not the only form of sustainable energy. thought crime May 13 #84
We have a Nuke plant in Kansas and we've been RAPED by it on rates since 1985 Bengus81 May 14 #98
Nevertheless the planet has been raped by fossil fuels. NNadir May 14 #99
How much do you pay for electricity? hunter May 14 #107
Maybe nuclear? Mossfern May 13 #20
You need power liberalgunwilltravel May 13 #30
Thanks Mossfern May 13 #59
Hydrogen, whether generated by clean nuclear power or by so called "renewable energy" is a terrible idea as a... NNadir May 13 #41
Thank you Mossfern May 13 #60
Well the good thing about admitting one knows little - the excellent thing in fact - is that one's mind is open. NNadir May 13 #63
This message was self-deleted by its author MadameButterfly May 13 #16
I'm Sorry but what you say is not the whole story. liberalgunwilltravel May 13 #21
At Field Station Berlin we used lead-acid batteries in our powerhouse jmowreader May 13 #48
Hmm... the smell: would exposure be detrimental w all that lead or a short time there would prevent that electric_blue68 May 13 #56
Once the lead is cast into plates and fixed into a cell it's no problem, so long as it stays there jmowreader May 13 #87
TY for explanation electric_blue68 May 16 #121
chemical batteries are only one type of battery lapfog_1 May 13 #32
LFP batteries don't have cobalt (or even nickel) however. Disaffected May 13 #38
It's always something tomorrow. hunter May 13 #53
Fusion energy and the hydrogen economy are very iffy alright but, Disaffected May 13 #73
Magic in the sense that they would allow us to quit both fossil fuels and nuclear power. hunter May 14 #89
I don't think anyone is seriously claiming batteries will reach utopia, Disaffected May 14 #91
Sorry to disappoint, but "renewables" are less than 10% of China's primary energy... hunter May 14 #106
"renewables" are less than 10% of China's primary energy..." Disaffected May 14 #108
There was all sorts of happy talk about renewable energy in China... hunter May 14 #112
The Trump administration is trying to boost nuclear energy thought crime May 13 #88
I have spent decades in the primary scientific literature and as a result, I have very little patience for handwaving. NNadir May 13 #62
Good grief, I'll not waste time trying to respond to all your "points". Disaffected May 13 #68
Um, kiddie...China is NOT a Luddite country. It's become the world leader in science, since in the US abrogated... NNadir May 15 #115
Ugh. Disaffected May 15 #117
Trust me, I'm well aware that there are people who cannot be "convinced" of anything. They're not especially bright... NNadir May 15 #118
I think we have talked about this before. I am hearing that there are companies that PatrickforB May 13 #46
In applications that are not sensitive to energy density, USAF Brat May 13 #57
I used to be totally off grid with batteries but connected to grid and now can watch my electric metor spin backwards womanofthehills May 15 #113
Rs also like to say when there's no wind blowing KS Toronado May 13 #13
🤣🤣🤣 ultralite001 May 13 #14
I had an experience several months ago with a MAGA about wind energy storage. wnylib May 13 #70
Also, wind farms are placed in windy places womanofthehills May 15 #116
Amen KS Toronado May 15 #119
He know that.. he's Trumps jester. BradBo May 13 #17
Literally... BurnDoubt May 13 #18
This old girl would just say, it seems it can get complicated. Joinfortmill May 13 #24
Batteries are a regressive tax on low income people... hunter May 13 #26
LOL popsdenver May 13 #44
Hoover dam has never produced as much electricity in a single year... hunter May 13 #67
I guess popsdenver May 13 #69
The argument against renewable energy is an alternative form of climate change denial. thought crime May 13 #47
"the sole purpose of which is to assuage the guilt that affluent people feel for their environmentally destructive lifes DBoon May 13 #85
Doh! Dave Bowman May 13 #27
Well, batteries Manatee May 13 #29
Ouch! Chasstev365 May 13 #31
My outdoor solar lights stay on all night. Are they possessed? twodogsbarking May 13 #33
The lengths these... relogic May 13 #34
Yes, and when the sun goes down there is no photosynthesis and the plants all die. dedl67 May 13 #35
+1 dalton99a May 13 #40
BURGUM... littlemissmartypants May 13 #37
An overly simple idea Crawford May 13 #39
Enough with these "The gentleman..." swong19104 May 13 #43
"Are you a fucking idiot?" I love that. Buddyzbuddy May 13 #50
The same basic argument is made for wind jmowreader May 13 #45
I covered the absurdity of this argument previously, discussing the amount of cobalt required to cover a month of... NNadir May 13 #51
The Tesla 3 battery, the one "currently" manufactured Disaffected May 13 #83
We're saved then!!!!! A lot has been written about these batteries it turns out, and a full commentary... NNadir May 14 #97
Don't bother, Disaffected May 14 #102
Well, I'll comment despite your disinterest on the science... NNadir May 14 #104
Good one. Please explain this very novel and new concept to me. Thanks. efhmc May 13 #64
He is his boss's servant D_Master81 May 13 #65
Although Solar Syastems produce NO POWER at night... WarGamer May 13 #71
That moment of "sunlight" exposed Burgum to be oasis May 13 #72
According to Bergum, solar is "intermittent" and not secure Renew Deal May 13 #74
They are going to complain that some other power source is interruptable during RockRaven May 13 #77
Genius that one is BillJoeBobBeauregard May 13 #78
just have to put in this reply and a response to the reply: orleans May 13 #80
Is there a Nobel Prize for stupidity? Permanut May 13 #81
Yes. It's called the FIFA Peace Prize. Ray Bruns May 14 #96
For the next news flash - wind turbines stop generating when there is no wind! Aussie105 May 13 #82
Australia can become a global energy powerhouse thought crime May 14 #100
You could put solar panels near hydro dams and applegrove May 14 #90
That has been done ("stored hydro") but Disaffected May 14 #111
I'm guessing Burgum self-identifies as an energy expert Torchlight May 14 #103
MaddowBlog-On renewable energy, Interior's Burgum offers a case study in willful ignorance LetMyPeopleVote May 14 #109
Breaking news: Batteries LetMyPeopleVote May 14 #110
This made me smile LetMyPeopleVote May 16 #122
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»BURGUM: When the sun goes...»Reply #108