General Discussion

be realistic with women. Yes, sex can become NONCONSENSUAL during the act (even if it might have started as consensual)-- at which point cessation must stop or rape has occurred. Likewise if sex itself becomes nonconsensual along with a premature removal of a condom. All of these situations are rape. But, at this point only a handful of states have begun to address stealthing as a single element of rape (i.e., when the act itself remained consensual, no other legal elements were present). We owe to the women on this site not to suggest otherwise--no matter how we may personally feel. Might that change with concerted efforts by women here or elsewhere in each state? I'd hope so eventually. But, it is not the case now, albeit it can absolutely be the single element for a civil suit.

Hell, as we saw with Jean Carroll's civil cases in NY. While penetration of any kind with ANY object--anatomical or not-- constitutes the definition of 'rape' in many states, it does not in NY, but only penile pentration constitutes the definition--otherwise objects including TSF's finger, meet only the statutory definition of sexual assault only. That would not be the case in many and perhaps most other states, which the judge alluded to in his legal ruling.

In both examples, we are free to label as we wish on a layperson basis. But, when the law comes into effect, that is not always the same.

I get that you don't like my pointing this out. I don't like that I have to. We agree that the law and society must change on these issues. But, we are where we are now. Civil law gives us more latitude. Criminal? Not so much depending on the state.