General Discussion

krispos42

(49,445 posts)

261. I've been saying this since calls for a new assault weapon ban popped up after Newtown

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:31 AM

Jan 2013

I don't agree with you, but I appreciate the consistent manner in which you approach the issue.

"Assault weapons" are semi-automatic guns with too many secondary features. It's a failed attempt to differentiate between "good" and "bad" semiautomatic guns, the apparent thinking being too many secondary features make the gun "bad.

I wrote a post on this if you're interested: http://www.democraticunderground.com/117295365

You would have to compensate people if you take their guns; fair market price for them. That would probably average $1,000 per gun. Maybe more. It would be a sizeable chunk of change, hundred of billions of dollars.

Honestly, I don't think it would reduce either gun crime or overall crime. 95% of murders are single-victim incidents, most murders are done with handguns, a large chunk of murders are because of gang activities, etc. But your approach is logical and does not have ambiguities and exceptions that are hallmark weaknesses of the old expired and new proposed AWB.

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I'm all for a total ban on semi-automatic guns [View all] Hugabear Jan 2013 OP

Semi automatic handguns are the best available choice for self defense ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #1

How so? Hugabear Jan 2013 #4

A revolver is semi-automatic NeedleCast Jan 2013 #9

nice try, but there is a distinction..but lets play SEMANTICS and cloud a life and death rustydog Jan 2013 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author Hoyt Jan 2013 #28

You are wrong. Not all revolvers are semi-automatic Hugabear Jan 2013 #17

Hey, you made the distinction NeedleCast Jan 2013 #19

Really? Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #27

I guess the question I'd ask is NeedleCast Jan 2013 #45

Then ban the manufacture, sale, and possession of auto-loaders. Hugabear Jan 2013 #84

An autoloader is a little plastic disk with six holes in it Recursion Jan 2013 #133

Most murder victims are not killed in massacres. immoderate Jan 2013 #134

Hey, ONE life would make it worth it. tblue Jan 2013 #226

Yeah, but you could wipe out a lot of freedoms with that reasoning. immoderate Jan 2013 #232

Cheney's 1% doctrine was unacceptable then... krispos42 Jan 2013 #262

You're still making a semantic argument NeedleCast Jan 2013 #136

exactly RainbowOverTexas Jan 2013 #194

Root causes...gun-speak for more mental health counselors and pills to deter the violent sociopaths? libdem4life Jan 2013 #228

Fail ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #242

We did not have 300 million weapons and middle class, white folks paranoid about their neighbors libdem4life Jan 2013 #253

Again Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #90

Stil. Semantic. Argument. NeedleCast Jan 2013 #143

I am not arguing that point Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #175

TO an exent, I agree with that single point NeedleCast Jan 2013 #180

To that point Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #188

In this case, the shooter at Newtown... krispos42 Jan 2013 #265

How long does it take to reload a revolver versus a clip-fed semi-automatic? Hugabear Jan 2013 #42

Speed Loader NeedleCast Jan 2013 #59

You're absolutely delusional Hugabear Jan 2013 #73

Its not that hard to learn how to do it, just about every cop knew how ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #80

Wrong, but you'll still believe what you want rustydog Jan 2013 #108

I never said they were good, just that they were trained ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #116

In how many of the Jenoch Jan 2013 #221

Why is it Delusional? NeedleCast Jan 2013 #96

It makes it much harder Hugabear Jan 2013 #128

OK, but monitoring Sudafed hasn't actually done anything about meth production Recursion Jan 2013 #139

Your argument is still about rate-of-fire/reload NeedleCast Jan 2013 #165

Your idea about Jenoch Jan 2013 #225

Moon clips krispos42 Jan 2013 #266

reload in seconds in a shooting range in controlled situations maybe, rustydog Jan 2013 #95

OK, but Lanza killed 26 people in 20 minutes Recursion Jan 2013 #141

First of all: Lanza didn't use speed-loaders in a revolver, rustydog Jan 2013 #211

Oh, I agree; I was thinking of rate of fire in general Recursion Jan 2013 #215

they have speed loaders for wheel guns. reloading quick is easy with them. JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #61

So they carry half a dozen guns - still dead people. Indydem Jan 2013 #65

So your answer is we shouldn't do anything, because criminals will still find ways to kill Hugabear Jan 2013 #79

Do pipe bombs serve any other purpose? Indydem Jan 2013 #81

The only purpose of a gun is to kill. Hugabear Jan 2013 #93

That is absolutely not true. Indydem Jan 2013 #105

can you list the "dozens of other uses for a firearm?" frylock Jan 2013 #229

Still crickets ? Nt pkdu Jan 2013 #255

Sorry. Indydem Jan 2013 #270

yeh, i'm sure you do frylock Jan 2013 #273

To refine that list a bit theKed Jan 2013 #259

Of course I can. Indydem Jan 2013 #269

weak fucking sauce.. frylock Jan 2013 #274

I made you a list. Indydem Jan 2013 #275

i thought you had a life outside of DU? frylock Jan 2013 #276

I'm available at the moment. Indydem Jan 2013 #277

Thanks for making the effort. I too have a life outside DU, so I empathize ....but.. pkdu Jan 2013 #281

It is totally within Congress's power to reschedule semi-automatics under the NFA Recursion Jan 2013 #109

We've been over this before. Because someone upaloopa Jan 2013 #18

thank you upaloopa! barbtries Jan 2013 #107

I'm seeing a mixed message. People want assault-style weapons banned, Flatulo Jan 2013 #282

Oh Jeeez, more nomenclature obfuscation. The OP is clear. I agree with OP. Hoyt Jan 2013 #33

Wow , does that guy ever need his penis extension device. Nt pkdu Jan 2013 #256

But there is a difference between a semi-automatic revolver and a semi-automatic pistol Kaleva Jan 2013 #263

No. It's a repeater. krispos42 Jan 2013 #264

There are any number of treatises as to why...if I post any them, there will be cries of ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #22

Treatises, yes. Evidence, no. DanTex Jan 2013 #29

What evidence would you accept? ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #68

Something that shows that carrying a concealed gun makes a person safer. DanTex Jan 2013 #86

The NRA says the "Only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" rustydog Jan 2013 #98

I was referring to the semi vs revolver... ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #112

In other words, there is no evidence. DanTex Jan 2013 #123

The paucity of data means your (or others) conclusions cannot be valid ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #142

DGU is only one of many metrics. DanTex Jan 2013 #160

Many jurisdictions will routinely arrest/charge any person for DGU. Flatulo Jan 2013 #213

If you can't kill your zombie, commie, home-invasion bad guy rustydog Jan 2013 #10

Revolvers and shotguns are lousy for concealed carry ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #25

concealed carry? bongbong Jan 2013 #30

You want to talk about fear? Indydem Jan 2013 #41

Really? bongbong Jan 2013 #47

Your "delicate flowers" aren't murdering people. Indydem Jan 2013 #54

Sheesh bongbong Jan 2013 #88

That is a ludicrous argument constructed to fit your narritive. Indydem Jan 2013 #100

Hmmm bongbong Jan 2013 #111

Wow. I really do feel bad for you. Indydem Jan 2013 #131

??? bongbong Jan 2013 #149

Really? Indydem Jan 2013 #163

LOL bongbong Jan 2013 #171

So essentially the only answer to the gun violence problem rbixby Jan 2013 #117

There is no clear answer. Indydem Jan 2013 #135

So no part of the solution is 'less guns'? rbixby Jan 2013 #146

Nope. Indydem Jan 2013 #150

By your logic, then the answer is definitely 'more guns' rbixby Jan 2013 #159

That's a black or white view. Indydem Jan 2013 #167

I'm not sure that the thousands who die by gun violence every year rbixby Jan 2013 #172

My apologies. Indydem Jan 2013 #179

Reducing people to numbers makes it easier rbixby Jan 2013 #183

Making it seem like it happens all the time Indydem Jan 2013 #184

I don't really have other goals rbixby Jan 2013 #190

Bullshit. Hugabear Jan 2013 #168

Neither does Canada. Indydem Jan 2013 #176

Why are pro-gunners so clueless? DanTex Jan 2013 #224

Actually winding up with "less guns" is the rub Recursion Jan 2013 #187

What do Adam Lanza, James Holmes, and Jared Loughner have in common? Hugabear Jan 2013 #144

That's part of why mass shootings shouldn't be what drives gun policy Recursion Jan 2013 #170

The statistically significant portion of DU who would move... Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #63

LOL bongbong Jan 2013 #83

Who said anything about scientific... Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #110

FREEDUMB! bongbong Jan 2013 #129

You obviously prefer control of others... Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #186

Fear bongbong Jan 2013 #189

You obviously misunderstood... Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #192

Your statistics show your child runs a MUCH higher risk of being killed in your HOME rustydog Jan 2013 #55

Still statistically negligible. Indydem Jan 2013 #60

Actually I was referring back to some of what the prior poster wrote ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #85

LOL bongbong Jan 2013 #102

Tell that to the GLBT community some time ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #126

Ho boy bongbong Jan 2013 #140

How many home invaders have you had to kill? How many times while shopping at b-mart rustydog Jan 2013 #50

More than a dozen... ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #62

You've had to kill more than a dozen and we haven't seen you in the news? rustydog Jan 2013 #82

Did you miss the word "scales" ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #99

No I didn't miss scales. you're trying to distract because you're arguement is lame. rustydog Jan 2013 #147

Your prior reply showed no such intent ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #158

Backpedal? hardly, but I used sticks and stones (hummm) to kill rattlers rustydog Jan 2013 #216

Maybe not everyone is as incredibly tough as you are. Flatulo Jan 2013 #250

Why do you consider a wheel gun a poor choice for CC? Flatulo Jan 2013 #220

Size...much easier to be "read" ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #239

It took me a long time to find acceptable holsters for both the Glock and the Ruger. Flatulo Jan 2013 #244

I bet you can still be read by a pro ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #246

Expect a lot more of this kind of harassment in the future as fear and ignorance spread. nt Flatulo Jan 2013 #254

Amen DustyJoe Jan 2013 #153

No matter what idea comes up gunners will upaloopa Jan 2013 #13

I am for some additional controls ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #26

Your support is for doing nothing about the absurd flood of weapons in this country. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #234

That is not true...what follows will slow down the illegal weapons traffic in this country ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #241

ban them. now. spanone Jan 2013 #16

I know at least one woman... Chuckster Jan 2013 #32

To each their own and its a choice that should be respected ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #44

That person is an idiot, but it's her choice. No one is forcing her to defend her life. Flatulo Jan 2013 #251

I support her right to make her own choices, I think it is way disturbing that TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #258

handguns are a public health issue, everyone around them is in danger. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #233

Which is why LEOs carry them? ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #243

Only amoung right wing NRA chat groups denizens. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #248

You could sit next to my pistol for 10,000 years and you would not be in any danger. nt Flatulo Jan 2013 #252

Your grasp of epidemiology is stunning. I suggest a letter to NEJM. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #268

If it's dying you're worried about, rest easy. According to the CDC, homicide Flatulo Jan 2013 #280

How would you keep them from crossing the southern border? cherokeeprogressive Jan 2013 #2

Seems that most of our guns are going into Mexico, not the other way around Hugabear Jan 2013 #7

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #34

I'm honored that you used one of your 8 posts since 2001 to respond to me Hugabear Jan 2013 #46

I found that odd too... ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #103

Yeah, there are some issues alright. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2013 #113

I'm curious... Do you think the War On Drugs caused more marijuana to be grown in Mexico cherokeeprogressive Jan 2013 #260

Same way we keep full autos from doing so jeff47 Jan 2013 #76

I'd like to see a scale with the extreme ideas upaloopa Jan 2013 #3

Cue gungeoneers to claim you are endangering women or minorities. onehandle Jan 2013 #5

It already happened in the 1st post to the OP. Agschmid Jan 2013 #8

Ah. I have 90% of them on ignore. onehandle Jan 2013 #12

I should use ignore more I guess! n/t Agschmid Jan 2013 #15

Why not engage instead? ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #31

Personally, I like to hear opposing opinions. Chuckster Jan 2013 #38

A number of them were following me around the board and stalking me. onehandle Jan 2013 #49

Actually a number of people felt they were stalked by you ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #66

One has been active today, I am told. (by PM) onehandle Jan 2013 #75

Thank you for confirming the oft rumored back channel ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #120

The NRA has strict guidelines on chatboard posts bongbong Jan 2013 #35

Why only semiautos? dairydog91 Jan 2013 #6

Really? Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #21

Makes no difference if you're shooting 6 year olds. dairydog91 Jan 2013 #36

I had to look it up Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #164

Ever seen one of these? guardian Jan 2013 #191

The funny part of all this. Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #193

Gotta agree with you, sir. Life long gun owner here, and I have to think that Flatulo Jan 2013 #227

Ah, and another billh58 Jan 2013 #196

+1 million Agschmid Jan 2013 #11

A 12 gauge with #4 buckshot would JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #20

Going Rogue bongbong Jan 2013 #37

I would guess JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #57

??? bongbong Jan 2013 #77

England and Oz did not have JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #130

Nope bongbong Jan 2013 #138

Australia also has a higher gun ownership rate today than before the buyback Recursion Jan 2013 #157

You may be right about 20% - 30% "going rogue" guardian Jan 2013 #199

Especially when everyone JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #200

Nobody is talking about going door-to-door Hugabear Jan 2013 #201

I think you under estimate the JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #203

"There's a large segment of this country, just waiting for a reason to explode." guardian Jan 2013 #204

Yeah. LIke those Delicate Flower pot growers in Humbolt. Chuckster Jan 2013 #58

Well goodbye Chuckster billh58 Jan 2013 #238

Yep, you Gungeoneer billh58 Jan 2013 #237

I'm thinking the following krispos42 Jan 2013 #267

How would you enforce your ban? regjoe Jan 2013 #23

NRA Talking Point alert bongbong Jan 2013 #40

Didn't answer the question. Indydem Jan 2013 #48

LOL bongbong Jan 2013 #97

So you are advocating a Civil War? Indydem Jan 2013 #106

Hey, you said it bongbong Jan 2013 #121

It's a great quote. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #125

Won't work this time bongbong Jan 2013 #132

What makes you believe that "delicate flowers" are a minority? Indydem Jan 2013 #145

Numbers bongbong Jan 2013 #156

Is the stricter gun control they are calling for include bans? Indydem Jan 2013 #169

Prove it bongbong Jan 2013 #177

Ahh, you made the original supposition. Indydem Jan 2013 #182

<--- Gun owner Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #185

Consider this ... spin Jan 2013 #218

Depends on the law. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #154

Seems to me the only ones advocating civil war are those desperate to cling to their guns Hugabear Jan 2013 #151

What good is a ban if you don't enforce it? regjoe Jan 2013 #56

Well, how *would* you enforce it? Recursion Jan 2013 #70

Get stopped and you're carrying...arrest and confiscation rustydog Jan 2013 #124

So, like we do with pot? Recursion Jan 2013 #127

Anybody can grow pot in their backyard or inside their house. Hugabear Jan 2013 #162

You can't grow heroin, it comes from Afghanistan for the most part Recursion Jan 2013 #166

Well the war on drugs guardian Jan 2013 #205

We need to decriminalize drug use Hugabear Jan 2013 #214

Really not that difficult jeff47 Jan 2013 #87

There were never all that many machineguns in the US to begin with Recursion Jan 2013 #101

Compared to when there was no law against it? It's way down. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #148

Interesting, "Heroin" is a trademark of Bayer Recursion Jan 2013 #152

The vast majority of what are now illegal drugs were very widely used jeff47 Jan 2013 #181

Here you go. Hugabear Jan 2013 #115

It was an honest question and thank you for answering regjoe Jan 2013 #174

What registration documents? hack89 Jan 2013 #219

I wouldn't go there... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #24

Automatic weapons of today are basically machine guns. onehandle Jan 2013 #39

You went there bongbong Jan 2013 #43

I can't see it, but I assume that's what lies below. nt onehandle Jan 2013 #52

Yep bongbong Jan 2013 #91

Not an NRA-bot... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #173

Please edumacate me here: billh58 Jan 2013 #240

Not true in the least ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #51

Lee Harvey Oswald used a bolt action rifle. bvar22 Jan 2013 #53

Boom. derby378 Jan 2013 #64

LOL bongbong Jan 2013 #69

How does it show a deep lack of knowledge? DanTex Jan 2013 #67

Very, very few gun deaths are due to semi-automatic rifles, too Recursion Jan 2013 #74

And those would be covered by this proposed ban (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #92

Many (most?) handguns are semi-auto these days. DanTex Jan 2013 #94

The fact that Oswald was able to fire 3, well aimed shots... bvar22 Jan 2013 #155

Of course, it's possible to kill people with a bolt-action. DanTex Jan 2013 #178

#1, I believe that incrementally expanding MediCare was not only possible, bvar22 Jan 2013 #210

Oswald was a trained marksman. You left that part out. nt. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #235

actually, you're wrong, they are number two on the mass killing weapons list rustydog Jan 2013 #118

I didn't say "mass killings deaths" I said "gun deaths" Recursion Jan 2013 #119

Agree JohnnyBoots Jan 2013 #71

I don't want to get too deep into conspiracy theories on this thread... Hugabear Jan 2013 #197

And if Oswald had a machine gun? vkkv Jan 2013 #207

Probably not. They're bad at hitting things Recursion Jan 2013 #230

Unreasonable kudzu22 Jan 2013 #72

There are plenty here who would welcome that. Indydem Jan 2013 #78

Nothing the OP proposed suggested 'taking people's property.' onehandle Jan 2013 #89

I took "no grandfathering" to mean you have to turn 'em in kudzu22 Jan 2013 #272

We can ban Assault Weapons, which are the closest non-NFA weapons we have jmg257 Jan 2013 #161

hugabear barbtries Jan 2013 #104

I'll sign on to this plan. We need REAL action to stop the carnage. Dems to Win Jan 2013 #114

I'm thinking more targeting 'repeating arms with removable mags/without fixed capacity.' jmg257 Jan 2013 #122

I think the problem is that our country is awash in guns, legal, illegal, stolen, etc rbixby Jan 2013 #137

once the guns are gone RainbowOverTexas Jan 2013 #195

horseshit, texasrainbow SCantiGOP Jan 2013 #198

maybe RainbowOverTexas Jan 2013 #202

how many people in china died last year in mass knife attacks? frylock Jan 2013 #236

I say...couldn't we do both??? nt jmg257 Jan 2013 #212

I totally agree with you, billh58 Jan 2013 #247

Gun nuts want to claim 2nd Amendment rights? vkkv Jan 2013 #206

conversation with a libertarian SCantiGOP Jan 2013 #208

Technically speaking, you are absolutely right. Gun nuts simply do not want to acknowledge this. Hugabear Jan 2013 #217

strict constructionist, we must obey the Founding Fathers SCantiGOP Jan 2013 #222

Ha! The 2nd makes a distinction because 5 & 11 yr olds aren't in the well-regulated Militia... jmg257 Jan 2013 #209

+1. And a mandatory prison term for anyone caught with one after the amnesty period (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #223

kick samsingh Jan 2013 #231

Why not tax the living shit out of certain guns? Soundman Jan 2013 #245

$30k is too high SCantiGOP Jan 2013 #249

Take the actuarial data from the cost of gun violence...like we do health care and autos ... libdem4life Jan 2013 #257

+100 billh58 Jan 2013 #271

I've been saying this since calls for a new assault weapon ban popped up after Newtown krispos42 Jan 2013 #261

LOL bongbong Jan 2013 #278

This message was self-deleted by its author Sirveri Jan 2013 #279