General Discussion

JustAnotherGen

(37,507 posts)

69. Not off topic - but bear with me

Fri May 10, 2013, 11:29 AM

May 2013

I read DU for many years prior to joining in August 2007. As an outside observer - I was thrilled by two things:

The focus on winning - and nothing less than winning big in 2008.
The focus on the the Democratic House (2006) and getting them to do our will as Democrats.

Here's why I feel a bit unwelcome:

I could care less who is running in 2016.

We are so nitpicky about what is in front of us right now - that we throw up our hands and state:

Let's not be activists. Let's not do to the Democratic Senate what the TEA Party does to the House Republicans. Let's just stay as a 'site' in a State of Perpetual Election Anxiety.

Anyone who challenges one of these 'Elections all the time' folks? Pretty much patted on the head and sent along our way.

Heaven forbid we want to do WHAT we can with the House, Senate and WH that we HAVE TODAY.

Heaven forbid we focus on our leftist roots and make that difference - instead of worrying about what might, maybe happen, sometime in 2016 or 2020.

Heaven forbid doing the right thing now - could lead to I dunno - Chelsea Clinton losing in 2040.

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Some of here sometimes feel Unwelcome. Even many of us who were here back..Way Back [View all] KoKo May 2013 OP

Hell, I said when Clinton was president and the Newt was in some sort of leadership.. angstlessk May 2013 #1

Lotsa Money was made...it just didn't "Trickle Dow." It seems in retrospect that what KoKo May 2013 #3

LOL "Trickle Dow." - A typo with a message. Junkdrawer May 2013 #12

It's very appropriate Phentex May 2013 #33

I bet you a million shares it was NO typo. It should say (pun intended) to be honest graham4anything May 2013 #62

Best. Typo. Ever. Occulus May 2013 #73

People who say the like economics but hate the Clintons are being disingenious. graham4anything May 2013 #27

IMO that is a load of BS. The GOP has no problem deserting a candidate who does not toe the party l Vincardog May 2013 #52

Jeb Bush is back. Why? Because the tea party serves the Bush's and the people planted by Rove graham4anything May 2013 #55

You are free to vote any way you want. nt Vincardog May 2013 #56

You are free to vote for Ralph Nader, but accept Nader threw the election on purpose graham4anything May 2013 #65

I hope you realize I have the same freedom with my vote as you do. Don't preach. I will vote for who Vincardog May 2013 #109

Excellent points, graham4anything. BlueCaliDem May 2013 #63

1+ I've actually seen Green Party people say, to the effect, "We're sitting this out until the patrice May 2013 #75

Patrice, "naivete" is absolutely the correct word choice HERVEPA May 2013 #176

Right, in the meantime (as in forever) whatchamacallit May 2013 #204

Are you channeling Herman Cain? Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #86

A few weeks ago, when one of the 20 had a yada yada petition, and Elijah Cummings refused to graham4anything May 2013 #95

That's like saying the only choices are dating someone who says they are going to fuck you, jtuck004 May 2013 #87

Crude but apt analogy Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #174

The Clinton years were so wonderful, millions couldnt wait to vote for a Republican. rhett o rick May 2013 #126

That "with us or against us" talk is exactly what people hated about George W. Bush. mattclearing May 2013 #158

those who tell us there are only X solutions to any given problem are dogmatic political hacks LanternWaste May 2013 #275

Yes, I noticed the rightward shift in the 1990s, but Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #173

Lots of people noticed. Lots care n2doc May 2013 #2

I think that that's what's Left, anymore. Quote from You: KoKo May 2013 #4

The DEM Party Plank is merely window dressing blkmusclmachine May 2013 #17

I'm beginning to realize olivelove May 2013 #32

Much like Ralph Nader was paid and bought by the republican party, right? graham4anything May 2013 #46

Warren 2016 (eom) MannyGoldstein May 2013 #241

I haven't been here THAT long...... socialist_n_TN May 2013 #5

Good to hear from a Newer DU'er from 2010...and what you say, from your perspective KoKo May 2013 #9

A socialist friend of mine claims that the "Recall Walker" campaign was a distraction Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #175

Oh yeah, that is undoubtedly true IMO Lydia......... socialist_n_TN May 2013 #184

I think what you are seeing are the true believers of Obama n2doc May 2013 #30

Obama was always pretty conservative - TBF May 2013 #70

The cult of personallity and pride blinds IMO. n/t L0oniX May 2013 #78

are you referring to the swooners? Skittles May 2013 #6

"The Swooners." Le Taz Hot May 2013 #50

Maybe the key ProSense May 2013 #7

The change goes back to at least Mondale and Dukakis.... Junkdrawer May 2013 #8

I'm not so much thinking it was Mondale ...but, that you are correct about Dukakis... KoKo May 2013 #11

What I was alluding to was that back-to-back BIG loses opened the door for the DLC.... Junkdrawer May 2013 #13

bull. Mike Dukakis is one of the biggest liberals there is. graham4anything May 2013 #28

LBJ did escallate this little thing called Vietnam..... Junkdrawer May 2013 #36

Truman and Eisenhower and JFK's war. graham4anything May 2013 #37

Well...we tried "hey hey LBJ, how many kids did the war started by Ike, continued by JFK... Junkdrawer May 2013 #39

Nixon might have been the songwriter of the cheer, as he was the beneficiary graham4anything May 2013 #41

I'm thinking folks who lost HS and college buddies who were drafted and killed in 'Nam... Junkdrawer May 2013 #42

whatever.one can debate Vietnam or face political reality and accept consequencesof that protest graham4anything May 2013 #44

nice spin G_j May 2013 #53

yes,you prove my point AND Nixon led to how many more years of war with that? graham4anything May 2013 #57

Bullshit....had RFK lived he would have been president. zeemike May 2013 #115

Historical revisionism, thy name is graham4anything.... n/t Junkdrawer May 2013 #120

The unfortunate thing is that some of us remember. zeemike May 2013 #134

Ever think you'd make it to "Elder with long memory" status? Junkdrawer May 2013 #136

Nope. zeemike May 2013 #137

Hmph, I had "elder with long memory" status back in 2004, when Jiacinto Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #177

Whoever put Dukakis in that tank should be shot. Junkdrawer May 2013 #178

That was supposed to make him look "strong on defense" Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #181

No, HHH would have been the nominee anyhow.And he still would have lost due to fracture. graham4anything May 2013 #141

No you are wrong...I remember zeemike May 2013 #143

That's how I remember it, too Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #179

And the Chicago convention would have had a much different tone. zeemike May 2013 #190

And just two months before, MLK, with his growing critique of the economic system Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #194

Yep it was very convenient tor Nixon and the right wing. zeemike May 2013 #198

Yup and a multi-generational hold on Congress. TheKentuckian May 2013 #16

We won the election because, despite incipient insanity, Ross Perot started telling people Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #90

1994.... Junkdrawer May 2013 #94

The Beatles were mainstream, so were the Stones, so were the Dead. graham4anything May 2013 #142

Maybe we should have a party that exists on the fringes while republicans rule everything bluestate10 May 2013 #253

You won. Republicans vs Democrats became Troglodytes vs Republican-Lites. Junkdrawer May 2013 #254

Results matter. The alleged republican-lits have accomplished more in two decades than bluestate10 May 2013 #258

Constructive criticism of Democratic party and President Obama's policies is welcomed here. Nye Bevan May 2013 #10

It is actually ok to advocate for third party progressive candidates in some cases on DU Flying Squirrel May 2013 #25

As long as by 'constructive criticism' one means fawning acceptance of evermore rightwing policies panzerfaust May 2013 #49

+1 and once again, we need a like/recommend option for comments. n/t Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #91

Straw-fucking-man argument emulatorloo May 2013 #127

Absolutely correct! n/t defacto7 May 2013 #154

Yes, yes, yes. northoftheborder May 2013 #191

Action Half-Century Man May 2013 #14

OMG, thank you! intheflow May 2013 #15

Have my sons been talking to you too? LOL kickysnana May 2013 #20

Please consider the source. If someone who has a history of speaking out against economic injustice, AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #18

+1000 Many here agree with what you said. RC May 2013 #29

LOL Love this graphic. nt limpyhobbler May 2013 #226

YOU stay the course, KoKo... Octafish May 2013 #19

... SidDithers May 2013 #21

Hey Sid. Looks like YOU'RE becoming too Left for this site.... Junkdrawer May 2013 #23

Isn't this META? graham4anything May 2013 #38

Some GD Hosts think it is... SidDithers May 2013 #45

trouble of course being personal opinions on political issues/cliques get in the way graham4anything May 2013 #61

After an hour, 4 out of 5 hosts voted leave. Autumn May 2013 #58

Kitty threads stay also. nt bike man May 2013 #64

Those that find this thread too difficult to deal with should trash it and not alert. rhett o rick May 2013 #197

"I FEEL like X, I FEEL like Y, I FEEL like Z" alcibiades_mystery May 2013 #22

Where does the sense of entitlement come from? treestar May 2013 #24

A Democratic Party is a party of people who represent Democratic values and principles. sabrina 1 May 2013 #31

It is a big tent, if you decide it is not big enough for you treestar May 2013 #35

I love the tactic of NOT reading a comment, then posting what is supposed to be a response sabrina 1 May 2013 #40

Agreed. period. AND I have been wondering if anyone would like to consider that Third -whatever in patrice May 2013 #81

You said "A Democratic Party." "The Democratic Party," MineralMan May 2013 #47

You are wrong. This country has two Parties, one is not A Democratic Party, it is A Corporate sabrina 1 May 2013 #84

The "Corporate Party" infiltration into Dem Party is a huge concern. KoKo May 2013 #213

Treestar is right. Your part of the party moves the goalposts. bluestate10 May 2013 #262

The leftmost members of the site issue complaint after complaint, often in overly long bluestate10 May 2013 #260

Now is the time for all democratic people to defend Hillary. This benG. stuff is about 2016 graham4anything May 2013 #26

LMAO ...yea that's what we need ...another cult of personallity. n/t L0oniX May 2013 #77

No. Never. Sorry. n/t Whisp May 2013 #96

The change... pipi_k May 2013 #34

Except, it seems Bobbie Jo May 2013 #43

Well said...nt SidDithers May 2013 #48

. . . Le Taz Hot May 2013 #54

More interesting Bobbie Jo May 2013 #66

It DOES become a drone when absolutely everything is a 4-alarm-fire - AND - we never see any patrice May 2013 #85

I'd love to write about "process stuff" Le Taz Hot May 2013 #89

Thanks! and I'm a woman. I'm also lucky to live around some other committed activists. nt patrice May 2013 #104

More people die in the USA from guns/bullets in 6 months than ALL the drones in history graham4anything May 2013 #98

Fact: USA lives in physical/POLITICAL hostage to PRIVATE ARMED, ROGUE VIGILANTE, TREASONOUS TYRANNY. patrice May 2013 #100

-1million. No they don't. It's sunny outside, enjoy the evening, back later. graham4anything May 2013 #101

The goal should be not to elect more Democrats but to elect more Democrats that uphold rhett o rick May 2013 #99

What? Bobbie Jo May 2013 #105

Since the Republicans went wacko, lots of Republican voters have switched to the rhett o rick May 2013 #107

No.... Bobbie Jo May 2013 #113

Why wouldnt you think that there are a lot more DINO's since the REpublican's went over the edge? rhett o rick May 2013 #121

Funny if you ask Elizabeth Warren she would say she backs Barack Obama 100% graham4anything May 2013 #139

Duh! Of course. They arent stupid. They are politicians. To say they werent happy with Pres Obama rhett o rick May 2013 #146

I love it! It's like a beautiful Saturday morning filled w/ liquid Sunshine & smiles aglow graham4anything May 2013 #165

Tactic #20,001: When facing defeat, start rambling Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #183

ad hominem. graham4anything May 2013 #186

Did I mention any names? Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #187

LBJ is rightwing to a few too. Don't know why,when he was the biggest liberal of all time. graham4anything May 2013 #188

Are you still here? Bonobo May 2013 #225

Or as many call it, word salad...... socialist_n_TN May 2013 #189

spot on bobduca May 2013 #192

+100 n/t zappaman May 2013 #108

Perfect post, Bobbie Jo. Perfect. Number23 May 2013 #119

Thanks for posting this. Bobbie Jo emulatorloo May 2013 #130

Beautifully said! (nt) LostOne4Ever May 2013 #164

Not all Democrats, just the establishment types who are too buddy-buddy with the Republicans Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #185

What I learned on CGCS(the offshoot Kerry board) now defunct is this graham4anything May 2013 #51

BTW-58 posts here on, I forgot to say - I AM MADE TO FEEL UNWELCOME because of my graham4anything May 2013 #59

1+! . . . obviously you are an un-principled fellow, that's why. ;-) patrice May 2013 #88

I don't think there is a way to reconcile it. I vote the issues myself. For my whole voting forestpath May 2013 #60

been here and been green since 2002.... mike_c May 2013 #67

Occupy noticed, and offers tactics with which to reclaim the government back to FDR values. Fire Walk With Me May 2013 #68

But nobody "noticed" Occupy, and if they did, they came away with some serious reservations. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #82

Americans have "serious reservations" about Congress Fumesucker May 2013 #92

So do I. But I had/have even bigger reservations about Occupy! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #93

But why? Here's what Occupy has been doing in my town. I've shown you this before Bluenorthwest May 2013 #117

What am I doing? I pay my taxes. And no, you haven't "shown me this before". Fuck Occupy! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #118

Your hatred of Occupy makes strange bedfellows. I bet you hate whistle-blowers too. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #124

Oh, you spoke to me? Aren't you afraid I might "bully" you? Again, Fuck Occupy!!!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #125

Fine. Fuck your worthless sorry ass conservative Third Way MIC buttkissing bullshit. Zorra May 2013 #149

Oooooh! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #152

... Zorra May 2013 #155

Mad? You wish you had that power, don't you? I've been yelled at by anonymous.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #223

Your should have read the instructions ... Summer Hathaway May 2013 #157

LOL! Ms. Hathaway: "Hey, Zorra! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!" Zorra May 2013 #159

The only rabbit Summer Hathaway May 2013 #161

Gosh, the point of my post was, you use the same tired meme about labels Zorra May 2013 #162

"But I digress ..." Summer Hathaway May 2013 #163

Well, ya know, what can I say? Essential truths are eternal and immutable. nt Zorra May 2013 #193

+1 L0oniX May 2013 #201

So much for the OP's whine that it's the "left" that's getting bullied here Number23 May 2013 #218

Amazing, isn't it? Summer Hathaway May 2013 #221

Incredible post, Zorra and that your Bullet Points weren't answered but Attacked KoKo May 2013 #216

For someone purporting to crave "discussion" so much DemocratsForProgress May 2013 #228

Well said. n/t AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #170

Got your tinfoil in a wad? Bobbie Jo May 2013 #199

That silver wad you see isn't tinfoil. Zorra May 2013 #222

LMFAO n/t L0oniX May 2013 #200

3-3 to leave this bullshit? Are you people serious?? Number23 May 2013 #215

What's the trouble? Unsuccessful in shutting down discussion? DU is for "politically liberal people" rhett o rick May 2013 #237

Or I could take your approach and run off into the night when I'm asked a question Number23 May 2013 #266

Don't sweat it, I don't. I'm just waiting for these folks to score some real world political hits, Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #256

You mean like us LGBT progressives convincing an anti-LGBT sitting US President that Zorra May 2013 #264

I know but it's almost hilarious to watch them break a sweat hauling themselves onto that cross Number23 May 2013 #267

Beware of those that would bully you into saying something that might get you PPR'd. It's a game rhett o rick May 2013 #236

Very true, thanks, rhett o rick. There are degrees of conservatism, and more conservative people Zorra May 2013 #250

Yes I agree. Those that can not win their argument try to shut down discussion rhett o rick May 2013 #259

+1 nt Zorra May 2013 #261

You cant bully me. I feel bad for you. Your hatred for Occupy aligns you with the wrong side. rhett o rick May 2013 #150

No, the wrong side was Occupy. Booing John Lewis, a civil rights legend, who was.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #153

Great post. Bravo for the courage to say it!In Ron Paul's world Rep.Lewis wouldn't be in Congress graham4anything May 2013 #166

It takes no courage to hate. There were millions of Occupy protestors. rhett o rick May 2013 #172

Hatred of Elijah Cummings and hatred of John Lewis and Dr. King and and...Three people I love. graham4anything May 2013 #182

Your rationalizations are apparently your key to happiness. Occupy lives on, long live Occupy. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #195

And you would have been against the pesky American Revolutionaries. Those pesky protestors. rhett o rick May 2013 #169

Can I just say that you probably have the most appropriate screenname here. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #224

You dont like Occupy because you think they are dirty hippies just like my right-wing brother in law rhett o rick May 2013 #238

Let's try this again, and since English obviously isn't your primary language..... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #242

Hatred is not becoming to a "politically liberal person." Those that support the 1% will eventually rhett o rick May 2013 #243

That of course is not even close to the facts. But I am glad I am here to present you with the facts sabrina 1 May 2013 #274

Another "Vast Rightwing Conspiracy"? That all you got? LINK? LINK? LINK? LINK? Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #276

You got a link?? I didn't see any, mainly because any link telling that lie would be from a right sabrina 1 May 2013 #277

It's not Rep. Lewis that I don't trust, but I think you know that. LINK? LINK? LINK? LINK? Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #278

What? No link from you? I know the story you told is not hard to find on the internet. So why no sabrina 1 May 2013 #279

That article doesn't address the "booing", but I suspect you knew that when you posted it. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #280

The fake issue you raised has been settled with links, with Rep. Lewis' own account sabrina 1 May 2013 #281

x2 AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #171

But why? Here's what Occupy has been doing in my town. I've shown you this before. Here's video Bluenorthwest May 2013 #230

All of Occupy? That's a rather large task. MannyGoldstein May 2013 #131

Ronald Reagan helped the 99%? graham4anything May 2013 #239

Did I say that? MannyGoldstein May 2013 #240

you said in 30 years. 2013 minus 30 years is 1983...in the heart of Reaganlandia graham4anything May 2013 #247

What an argument. If we dont like your candidate we are "empowering" the other side. That argument rhett o rick May 2013 #263

loose lips sink ships. Old slogans grandma used to say usually had basis in fact. graham4anything May 2013 #270

You pay your taxes and behave yourself and hope that the Ruling Elite will be nice to you. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #196

Wow, such open contempt for helping the poor and those in need. Fuck Free Medical care? Bluenorthwest May 2013 #229

My contempt, as you call it, isn't for the concept of Occupy, it's the participants. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #231

Fuck Ron Paul. What a shitty and unfounded slander that is. Just because you are here spitting at Bluenorthwest May 2013 #232

Your ASSumption is that I don't care about people being helped is inaccurate, to say.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #234

You're very much in the minority here, so your 'giving a shit' or not about credible, honest DUers sabrina 1 May 2013 #284

Congress hasn't changed much in the last century or so.. Fumesucker May 2013 #122

But they're in power - LOL LeftInTX May 2013 #116

Not off topic - but bear with me JustAnotherGen May 2013 #69

^^^^This^^^ LuvNewcastle May 2013 #111

Stay! Anyone who selects a user name from one of Charlie Parker's most famous songs needs byeya May 2013 #71

K&R The 'Big (Democratic) Tent' felix_numinous May 2013 #72

Oh, a bunch of us noticed. blackspade May 2013 #74

Perhaps too often our attention, when we say "Democratic Party", is focused TOO high up. patrice May 2013 #76

Great post. I've stopped hoping for change "from above" BelgianMadCow May 2013 #138

I like what you are saying about being more positive in our actions, especially in what we say about patrice May 2013 #145

How? Find a relatively worthy "low-level" Democratic candidate who will collaborate with you and DO patrice May 2013 #79

Bettter yet, run for office yourself. Get your peeps, organize, DO the work and if you can make a patrice May 2013 #80

Did anyone notice? IrishAyes May 2013 #83

But you see... Bobbie Jo May 2013 #103

Well said! zappaman May 2013 #112

Well, I'm not familiar with everyone's individual situation IrishAyes May 2013 #140

Keep fighting. kentuck May 2013 #97

1+++ patrice May 2013 #102

+100 million. n/t L0oniX May 2013 #203

We are engaged in a war between the 1% and the 99%. The 1% totally owns the Republican Party. rhett o rick May 2013 #106

That would take $$Money$$ NorthCarolina May 2013 #110

Has KoKo posted anywhere else since the first few responses to this thread? Junkdrawer May 2013 #114

Yes, why do you ask? nm rhett o rick May 2013 #123

KoKo seems to me the type who would walk away without a GBCW post... Junkdrawer May 2013 #128

I'm here...but saw the post was alerted on and some DU'ers were sorry that it's still here... KoKo May 2013 #133

So...the million dollar question is: Was "Trickle Dow." a typo or a pun? Junkdrawer May 2013 #135

It was a Typo....but, it turned out kind of funny, really...so I didn't edit. KoKo May 2013 #209

As has been said: Best Typo Ever..... Junkdrawer May 2013 #214

The covert alert crew is nothing but a bunch of blog bully wannabees. They do not make DU better. L0oniX May 2013 #205

I so agree with you. "Dont want to lose KoKo." nm rhett o rick May 2013 #147

You feel unwelcome? Gee, I wonder why? You guys absolutely rule DU. Of course, nobody much gives Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #129

I catch your drift. Viva la Corporations. Long live the 1%. And you hope dearly that they will rhett o rick May 2013 #148

OMG! You swallowed an Occupy manifesto. Say hi to Jill & Rocky for me! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #151

Tomorrow is the weekly Occupy Free Clinic in my city! Swallow that! Bluenorthwest May 2013 #233

Organizations like Remote Area Medical have been delivering free health care for.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #235

Agreed. Occupy is a strange beast. For example "Oct. 16-Dec. 22," 2011, ucrdem May 2013 #246

Occupy "faded away" only from the mass media Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #249

Occupy was a tool "movement" that alienated the people they should've been trying..... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #255

That's funny, that 'smoke dope' thing. Saw that on Right Wing forums all the time re sabrina 1 May 2013 #269

I wouldn't know, I don't visit "Right Wing Forums", I'll leave that to you, BBI, & emilyg. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #271

Oh I can back it up. I can post from right wingers, your words almost exactly re OWS. sabrina 1 May 2013 #272

Link? And this time, make sure the links are actually related to the subject at hand. You have a.. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #273

Are you the formerly known DU'er..."Better Believe It?" I remember a poster by that KoKo May 2013 #283

Something to be said about that which you say: KoKo May 2013 #282

Du rec. Nt xchrom May 2013 #132

Never forget! yoyossarian May 2013 #144

Incredible Graphic...and remembering what it was and how hard we fought to change it! KoKo May 2013 #210

If you feel unwelcomed by someone, don't allow them to take up space in your thoughts. mia May 2013 #156

We just keep on choogling there KoKo! denbot May 2013 #160

I have only been here for about 1/2 a month LostOne4Ever May 2013 #167

That's beautifully put. ucrdem May 2013 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author AtomicKitten May 2013 #202

I posted this because I hoped for folks to DISCUSS...and air some of the problems KoKo May 2013 #211

Been trying to think of a good reply LostOne4Ever May 2013 #248

Another fabulous post from you. You've blown the OP's "point" wide open Number23 May 2013 #220

Thank you LostOne4Ever May 2013 #245

Well the OP got what she wanted, I think. A thread full of bullshit Number23 May 2013 #268

You've been hating Obama since 2008. It was you who left the Democratic Party. MjolnirTime May 2013 #180

Stalk much? n/t L0oniX May 2013 #206

I don't know, KoKo. Jamastiene May 2013 #207

Much Thanks...for understanding why I was asking.. KoKo May 2013 #212

Here's the problem: Lobbyists comb every piece of legislation with a fine tooth comb.... Junkdrawer May 2013 #219

this goes beyond politics DonCoquixote May 2013 #208

Yup. woo me with science May 2013 #227

Dem Party moved to right because in 2010 Congress moved VASTLY right MH1 May 2013 #217

Been here since Feb 2001. SammyWinstonJack May 2013 #244

You can choose to see only your viewpoint and feel sorry for yourself. bluestate10 May 2013 #251

Nope, the takeover was bankrolled by Wall Street. woo me with science May 2013 #257

I waited a couple of days LWolf May 2013 #252

I've been here since 2001. The conflicts between the Left and the Father Knows Best wing of the Tierra_y_Libertad May 2013 #265

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2019 #285

What were your GP6971 Oct 2019 #286