General Discussion

libodem

(19,288 posts)

66. Feels like a no win situation to me

Sat Dec 28, 2013, 02:25 PM

Dec 2013

I find it frustrating. I would like to know that our discussions are furthering some advance in educating both sexes toward ultimate equality. Even if in different roles and behaviors, both sexes contribute to making the world go 'round. I keep wanting to contribute something of substance that will bring an understanding and all will have instant euphonies, the light will snap on, all our ages of social evolution, will look like a road to the future, so we may see from whence we came to where we are headed, and why. I don't even know where to start.

Frankly I'm afraid of being attacked. I'm scared of some of the other women on the board. I have a big streak of 'people pleaser' running through my personality and I want to be liked. I don't fit in. I'm not one of 'them'. My agenda is not whatever stands for the most immediate gratification of causing the biggest divide and discard drama of the sexes. I can't put my finger on it because it still escapes me. But it feels contrived. It feels false. It feels vindictive. It feels condescending. It feels contemptuous. It feels like a narrative out of context with my reality. It is not my narrative.

I don't want to be told I'm not a real feminist because of it. And I've been doing it right for 40 years now. But not right enough to be a DU purist.

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Are the Feminist / MRA Argument Threads a means to "Divide and Conquer" DU - POLL [View all] FreakinDJ Dec 2013 OP

No, I think liberals truly disagree treestar Dec 2013 #1

You think its really about "Getting Laid" FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #4

It's odd how much mature wisdom sometimes resembles being too tired to bother Fumesucker Dec 2013 #10

Yeah, exactly. Quantess Dec 2013 #205

Relating to actual human beings in a meaningful way is like that. PassingFair Dec 2013 #33

Kodachrome... Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #201

FFS NoOneMan Dec 2013 #5

+100.5 Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #58

Well that is what I think MRA types usually are treestar Dec 2013 #74

And that's what you honestly feel is going on here on DU? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #76

Absolute Rubbish. MicaelS Dec 2013 #100

i do not believe that to be true. too often i have a good conversation, whether agreement or not is seabeyond Dec 2013 #106

Is there really such tremendous desperation out there to get laid? Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2013 #189

Sorry, Tree, my girlfriends are smoking hot, highly sexual and liberal. They are also polite, kind, grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #195

Can you describe what the difference is between competing in a feminine way vs. PassingFair Dec 2013 #355

they were summer dresses as opposed to office suits? nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #356

Ahhh...we forgot the SUNDRESSES! PassingFair Dec 2013 #360

your laugh is infectious. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #369

Sure grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #576

Because clearly, this is a realistic example. PassingFair Dec 2013 #578

Masculinity and femininity are socially constructed ideals that should be deconstructed. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #417

hey... seabeyond Dec 2013 #424

I thought they were biological. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #575

Nope. Social constructs. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #579

Feminist thought has a place on a liberal/Democratic message board... demmiblue Dec 2013 #2

I seek truth - don't exclude any honest, truthfull discussion FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #7

What IS MRA ideology? sibelian Dec 2013 #8

Denying that you become enraged if a woman decides not to sleep with you NoOneMan Dec 2013 #9

The hostility is just pouring out of your post. demmiblue Dec 2013 #16

Many feminists have a bizarre concept of what everyone else thinks NoOneMan Dec 2013 #18

Um, I would venture to guess that DU consists of an overwhelming majority of feminists... demmiblue Dec 2013 #27

No, not overwhelming, in that no man can be a feminist NoOneMan Dec 2013 #29

Yes, overwhelming. demmiblue Dec 2013 #39

No. NO man can be a feminist. The feminists movement entirely excludes men NoOneMan Dec 2013 #43

Please. bb is not the authority on The Feminist Movement. redqueen Dec 2013 #47

"The FACT is, most men on DU support feminist goals." NoOneMan Dec 2013 #60

A few vocal men ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #285

So despite men here saying they support feminist goals, polly7 Dec 2013 #290

I think you misread ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #316

"there are a few very vocal men denying rape culture, male privilege" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #318

Yes there are ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #325

No, I'm not up to the "challenge" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #328

I did really think you were ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #335

What issue? What side? What side do you think I am on? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #341

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #349

Its hard to take the high road and be insulting at the same time, isn't it? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #350

Funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #364

. Squinch Dec 2013 #430

I'm not!? boston bean Dec 2013 #136

You might want to explain that to the 17 people who recommended the thread. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #358

Wow, 17 whole DUers agreed? Well hell, we should send a memo to the millions of other feminists redqueen Dec 2013 #370

LOL.. boston bean Dec 2013 #389

again lumberjack it was a thread of discussion, done in respect. not something to hide, seabeyond Dec 2013 #376

The belief that men can't be feminists is a legitimate viewpoint, and is obviously widely held. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #466

Not clicking your link, because it is more than likely shit-stirring for the sake of shit-stirring. demmiblue Dec 2013 #48

No, its actually quite relevant NoOneMan Dec 2013 #53

Still didn't read it. demmiblue Dec 2013 #62

Don't tell me what I have by guessing. If I did the same to the HOFers, they'll jump all over my... NoOneMan Dec 2013 #67

Well, at least you admit that you are a patriarchal, authoritative ass. demmiblue Dec 2013 #81

Cheers for the sarcasm inept NoOneMan Dec 2013 #84

Go sulk in the corner and suck your thumb because I won't... demmiblue Dec 2013 #89

Funny. Puglover Dec 2013 #94

he thinks it is a gotcha moment. i actually think it is a very good conversation about seabeyond Dec 2013 #167

You should have clicked it before you said it 'more than likely shit-stirring for the sake of sabrina 1 Dec 2013 #185

YES men can be feminists. Are you from the past? Matariki Dec 2013 #69

The HOFers exclude all men as feminists. Am I to dismiss this as bullshit? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #71

What is a HOFer? And what are you talking about? Matariki Dec 2013 #75

History of Feminism NoOneMan Dec 2013 #83

Thanks for the link Matariki Dec 2013 #90

No, I am not hostile to women NoOneMan Dec 2013 #93

I didn't say you were. I said that some of your posts come off that way. Matariki Dec 2013 #121

"then I extricate myself from the conversation" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #126

when most all of your posts have to include a diss against hof, even though you did not specifically seabeyond Dec 2013 #142

+1,000,000 I tried to read the last few days "feminist" post and have come to the conclusion Drew Richards Dec 2013 #226

if you will look at the very long discussion we had in the thread, you will see a lot of respect, seabeyond Dec 2013 #105

No, they don't. kcr Dec 2013 #204

Huh? NuclearDem Dec 2013 #438

I provided a link above.... NoOneMan Dec 2013 #444

Derp, just saw that. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #446

I'm not even sure how to measure footing in the fight towards equality... NoOneMan Dec 2013 #451

It's about privilege. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #454

The self-appointed leaders on DU are doing a bang-up job NoOneMan Dec 2013 #456

quit. just quit. this is your crap. this is a discussion board. no leaders. NONE. quit that seabeyond Dec 2013 #462

Jury results! sheshe2 Dec 2013 #482

i had that sent to me in pm. one person will not be alerting on my posts for a day..... seabeyond Dec 2013 #485

we value mens voice in hof. that was a challenging thread to have seabeyond Dec 2013 #458

It's true that there are many reasons to recommend a thread. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #487

Jury: Agreed that this is feminist-bashing. Having read several other posts by this person .. Coyotl Dec 2013 #95

Thnx. I qualified the statement. It was a hasty generalization. NoOneMan Dec 2013 #101

i do not believe we are nasty to people. i am sorry you feel that way and feel the need to seabeyond Dec 2013 #107

And there you go again! Coyotl Dec 2013 #323

Well, just so he knows - I'm a feminist, and so happy to be one! nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2013 #192

And some people have a bizarre concept of what feminists think. Coyotl Dec 2013 #98

Ya. True. I guess we could get a little clarity if we all strove towards civility and understanding NoOneMan Dec 2013 #104

The Tone Argument has nothing to do with "MRA types" redqueen Dec 2013 #116

Consider Occam's Razor. Maybe people think you are just being utterly rude and nasty NoOneMan Dec 2013 #119

I didn't make the term up. redqueen Dec 2013 #130

"that pretty much says all that needs to be said" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #138

I posted the Indian PSA, there was no insulting content. redqueen Dec 2013 #144

yes. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #147

a PSA made in india addressing what they feel is a very real issue is "insulting"? seabeyond Dec 2013 #164

Did I reference that thread anywhere? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #312

she was specific and you dismissed. when just putting soemthing up with nothing and being called as seabeyond Dec 2013 #330

"that you were in the middle of" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #332

whatever noneman. you are throwing out accusations and we are suppose to seabeyond Dec 2013 #337

I remember once upon a time when I Soundman Dec 2013 #551

+1000 n/t TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #371

O, Rly? opiate69 Dec 2013 #170

Thanks for the link! Squinch Dec 2013 #440

Damn...someone just drips hostility Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #20

Interesting NoOneMan Dec 2013 #25

Really? People are noting all the threads you don't rec? cui bono Dec 2013 #28

No, it's because you're too resenful to realize and accept that women's issues are HUMAN issues whathehell Dec 2013 #160

What does a vaginal knitting thread have to do with this? Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2013 #188

On DU, MRA is apparently defined as a man not agreeing with a certain group of women. RC Dec 2013 #45

MRA is short for what? Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #55

"MRA" means "men's rights activist." RC Dec 2013 #59

Thanks! Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #64

+1000 nt rrneck Dec 2013 #127

Human rights are what Feminism is all about. It does NOT exclude men! CTyankee Dec 2013 #151

We are on DU. RC Dec 2013 #157

I believe that Feminism is much more inclusive than that. CTyankee Dec 2013 #159

Actual Feminism, yes, DU's brand, by the select group of suspects here, not so much. RC Dec 2013 #168

why must you always insult us in every single one of your posts? seabeyond Dec 2013 #173

RC, referring to people as "suspects" is never a good idea if you wish to sell your idea. CTyankee Dec 2013 #177

Are you volunteering to be one of the usual suspects? RC Dec 2013 #222

this one, a PSA from india. that 130 recommended. and many voices. is your issue. not a handful. seabeyond Dec 2013 #232

Wait, you didn't see her as a suspect before, but now you are starting to see one? boston bean Dec 2013 #248

Way to twist things around there. RC Dec 2013 #259

Oh good to know. Are you being serious, you got a list? boston bean Dec 2013 #262

Yep and I have checked it several times and haven't had to up date for quite sometime. RC Dec 2013 #266

Who are you santa clause? LOL boston bean Dec 2013 #272

For some people, yes. RC Dec 2013 #297

Ya know what, RC? I'm done. I'm good. CTyankee Dec 2013 #308

One letter shy of "NRA." Talking Points, too! One acronym, many self-packaged slurs. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #213

Anyone gonna answer this? grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #216

sure seabeyond Dec 2013 #243

Seems pretty obvious to me. nt redqueen Dec 2013 #13

Well, it isn't to me... sibelian Dec 2013 #23

No sh*t! etherealtruth Dec 2013 #172

+1 Hong Kong Cavalier Dec 2013 #253

"Runs the gamete?" Jackpine Radical Dec 2013 #3

Second that! grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #225

Hm. sibelian Dec 2013 #6

There is no MRA group here. polly7 Dec 2013 #11

Aren't women's rights a foundation of the Democratic Party? NuclearDem Dec 2013 #12

Agreed FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #15

They're not mutually exclusive. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #19

Exactly. cui bono Dec 2013 #22

How about 25% of men in prison are Raped FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #30

It's an issue. Feel free to go start a thread about it. n/t cui bono Dec 2013 #35

As I recall, sea and I were among the first to start calling out statements redqueen Dec 2013 #41

I certainly don't paint you as a disruptor FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #51

Here, this says most of what needs to be said on these issues much better than I could Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #50

I think the commonality of "False Acqusations" during Divorce Proceedings FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #57

What commonality of false allegations? Spider Jerusalem Dec 2013 #86

Wow. sibelian Dec 2013 #61

That is definitely an issue Matariki Dec 2013 #82

Male rape is a result of rape culture. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #96

Jesus fucking H Christ. sibelian Dec 2013 #108

Rape culture isn't just about women gollygee Dec 2013 #114

"Rape culture" seems to be about whatever anyone says its about. sibelian Dec 2013 #158

When did I say that? NuclearDem Dec 2013 #149

No, it fucking doesn't. sibelian Dec 2013 #174

Alright, I see what you mean. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #193

how about sexual brutality? Just a thought. It might get more play across the sexes and economic Drew Richards Dec 2013 #234

Sexual brutality is the act. Rape culture is the societal attitudes and practices Squinch Dec 2013 #452

I know what *I* call it. sibelian Dec 2013 #473

Ah, I get what you're saying. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #478

I stand humbled those two defining adjectives are the best way to describe it hands down. Drew Richards Dec 2013 #491

If it's deviating from the image of men kcr Dec 2013 #492

I think that Nuclear Dem was saying that rape is about rape, and no one should be raped. Squinch Dec 2013 #450

Not only that... DisgustedCynic Dec 2013 #542

women probably started the movement on this issue. i know on du, us feminists are the ones that seabeyond Dec 2013 #109

Well to be fair, polly7 Dec 2013 #113

you would be wrong. not from the start. though, many did come on board, in time. seabeyond Dec 2013 #115

Well I'm positive you didn't read every post then, because I saw and participated in, polly7 Dec 2013 #120

ya. pretty sure it was redq and i. a new concept that had to be accepted. seabeyond Dec 2013 #123

Na ...... it was a lot more people than you and redqueen way back then, right from the start. nt. polly7 Dec 2013 #124

I only said we were among the first. redqueen Dec 2013 #133

Agreed, this issue goes back to DU 1 and 2 maddezmom Dec 2013 #122

That's exactly how I remember it. nt. polly7 Dec 2013 #125

YES! The Feminist men in my family and my life know this and they love and respect the feminist CTyankee Dec 2013 #91

How are issues important to men, liberal issues of course, being excluded? cui bono Dec 2013 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #247

I have been trashcanning them and Duck Dynasty threads. n/t PowerToThePeople Dec 2013 #14

"Fringe groups"? "Democrat"? Is this thread meant to divide and conquer? cui bono Dec 2013 #17

In terms of the average voter - How do you think that "Ranks" for a vote deciding issue FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #24

What does that have to do with what I posted? Whether or not something is a voting issue does not cui bono Dec 2013 #34

Should the world revolve around sexism and women's issues FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #37

Are DUers only able to discuss one issue at a time? cui bono Dec 2013 #38

People did ask LGBT and black posters that question, often, during the primaries. redqueen Dec 2013 #42

*sigh* It's a wonder anyone actually thinks DU is a liberal board. cui bono Dec 2013 #44

Its only "Human Nature" that 1 issue be more important to you FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #72

Again you post something that has nothing at all to do with what I said. cui bono Dec 2013 #180

You hit it on the head here. "fringe" my ass. bettyellen Dec 2013 #214

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 BainsBane Dec 2013 #165

Your subject line is screwing up the thread view pintobean Dec 2013 #171

The "right side" you say? Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #236

This message was self-deleted by its author tammywammy Dec 2013 #386

The problem is when violence is conflated with looking at a girl who is dressed to kill. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #217

so the way she dresses has to do with how she is treated? seabeyond Dec 2013 #252

I think this "MRA" is largely a bogeyman. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #26

Me too NoOneMan Dec 2013 #31

The National Coalition for Men (ncfm.org) ranks #1,293,376 on Alexa. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #46

Bwaa-ha-ha!! Drag those troglodytes into the light of day! Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #260

Wait, what?? TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #380

I'm sorry, I meant Morlocks... Morlocks. That's it. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #415

... TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #464

It's a growing movement, and they are dangerous. redqueen Dec 2013 #56

How are they dangerous? sibelian Dec 2013 #85

The articles at the links contain a lot of information about that. nt redqueen Dec 2013 #99

OMG! 232 viewers on Reddit! Man, er, staff, the barricades! Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #210

Read the articles. These men are changing laws. redqueen Dec 2013 #245

Half of those 200 some-odd are probably from here, looking for "material" to be outraged about. MADem Dec 2013 #377

Well said MADem maddezmom Dec 2013 #395

are we feminists allowed to address the man we should speak femininely and wear sundresses, seabeyond Dec 2013 #443

Sure you can maddezmom Dec 2013 #447

Between the first women's right's convention and women getting the vote, there Squinch Dec 2013 #459

Sure does, but I have seen the same battles on DU for about 10 years maddezmom Dec 2013 #463

I've been on DU since 2001 kcr Dec 2013 #477

Well am I a feminist and I agree maddezmom Dec 2013 #479

I'm sorry you were treated badly by another feminist kcr Dec 2013 #481

yes. i do believe that staying silent in sexism only allows it to grow. and yes, i will seabeyond Dec 2013 #460

Sorry sea but you have called women/fellow feminists because we haven't joined in certain threads maddezmom Dec 2013 #468

i am not gonna argue or try to defend such a general statement but i can absolutely agree with the seabeyond Dec 2013 #470

So following DU's Community Standards Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #461

wtf.... seabeyond Dec 2013 #465

Do you think that's what she was saying? kcr Dec 2013 #474

Having trouble following the subject? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #494

I'm having no trouble at all. kcr Dec 2013 #500

So you think certain feminists are exempt from Community Standards? Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #506

I'm not following how thinking women should be able to wear what they want kcr Dec 2013 #508

Lol! Sure. Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #510

I guess the idea that women should be able to dress as they please kcr Dec 2013 #512

Why Waiting For Everyman Dec 2013 #519

See my edit. n/t kcr Dec 2013 #520

Did you read the articles I linked? This isn't about "bad behavior", but about changing laws. redqueen Dec 2013 #439

Until today, I didn't realize "MRA" was not a formal organization... Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #244

It is entirely a bogeyman lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #361

This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Dec 2013 #375

I don't think it's a matter of divide and conquer. mokawanis Dec 2013 #32

I think there are a few trolls up in there, having a great time. MADem Dec 2013 #36

The poll doesn't match the question asked hootinholler Dec 2013 #40

'Gender issues' are counterproductive. Vox Moi Dec 2013 #49

Disagree on equal pay JustAnotherGen Dec 2013 #161

I ended up hiding those forums liberalmuse Dec 2013 #52

I did that yesterday. Front page looks much better once again! NoOneMan Dec 2013 #73

Are the threads on LGBT issues meant to divide and conquer? BainsBane Dec 2013 #54

I don't think the OP ever mentioned the word 'Trivial' Raine1967 Dec 2013 #134

The subtext is clear BainsBane Dec 2013 #153

I've noticed that ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #301

Did you see post #78? redqueen Dec 2013 #156

Yes, I did. and you bet there is room for interpretation. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #237

Did I SAY it was "all about women"? He's saying feminist topics should be banned from GD. redqueen Dec 2013 #250

he's also saying something else. Raine1967 Dec 2013 #261

On slow news days these threads are more common. Laelth Dec 2013 #63

I find it really unfortunate that any progressives think women's issues are 'fringe' Matariki Dec 2013 #65

Feels like a no win situation to me libodem Dec 2013 #66

Well said, libodem. polly7 Dec 2013 #79

And thus divisive libodem Dec 2013 #117

It's impossible to know who the trolls are and who the genuine posters are. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #128

Yes libodem Dec 2013 #140

I don't really understand the agenda either of demonizing progressives polly7 Dec 2013 #137

wouldnt it be nice that ALL agree. unfortantely that has not been the case. we see it in abortion, seabeyond Dec 2013 #148

Very good points, polly7 libodem Dec 2013 #169

No, but I find I'm able to cover everything I enjoy posting about regarding injustices polly7 Dec 2013 #279

It's not my narrative either libodem. When you look around the globe at liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #118

Well said. rrneck Dec 2013 #139

If you disagree with some here you're just a pathetic "eager female cohort" to the men. tammywammy Dec 2013 #154

Dogs, pathetic creatures who live for the attention of men, MRA cheerleaders, polly7 Dec 2013 #162

Well, pat me on the head libodem Dec 2013 #166

It became clear a long time ago LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #514

Sadly I don't think there will ever be actual discussion on these topics on DU. n/t tammywammy Dec 2013 #516

Sadly, I suspect you're right n/t LadyHawkAZ Dec 2013 #517

My goodness. Thank you for your display of guts. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #255

guts? she expressed her opinion. no one said a word. lol. it is as it should be. lmfao seabeyond Dec 2013 #258

Yes, but due to the tone of them, not the issues nadinbrzezinski Dec 2013 #68

I'm sorry, you're spouting MRA garbage. I know, cause I read it in the HOF. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #135

Since I studiously avoid both groups, nadinbrzezinski Dec 2013 #294

Consensus achieved. I say keep all feminism/MRA Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #70

AGREED - if they want a "Playground to sling mud in" FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #78

Every time you fix a private sandbox rrneck Dec 2013 #141

good it will keep them busy... Niceguy1 Dec 2013 #342

Sandbox! Sandbox! grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #289

Concur. (n/t) Shandris Dec 2013 #129

so, we exclude womens issues on a progressive board? that is odd. how about class issues?, racisim seabeyond Dec 2013 #150

It is exactly for this reason that I concur. Shandris Dec 2013 #175

this was the post you concured with. i do not know what i did wrong in interpretating you agreed seabeyond Dec 2013 #178

Perhaps you are thinking of 'board' in a different manner than I did... Shandris Dec 2013 #182

feminists actually think that feminist issue are issues about women. but, thank you. i may have seabeyond Dec 2013 #184

No problems, it's very easy for us to both get confused on a medium... Shandris Dec 2013 #190

conversation. i do love. really, lol. PSA from india. that would be a subject some may see seabeyond Dec 2013 #198

I would definitely not want to be the one who had to make the decision... Shandris Dec 2013 #219

lol... seabeyond Dec 2013 #249

No kidding. This is f***ing embarrassing LittleBlue Dec 2013 #132

Why? Why not allow feminism discussion in GD? NuclearDem Dec 2013 #197

No. It bothers me some use it to browbeat others over Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #220

back.... and ya. some of use see the harm in giving "a woman scorned" because we understand how seabeyond Dec 2013 #257

No one told you you couldn't speak out about it! polly7 Dec 2013 #268

I do protect your right to speak out as you've seen. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #339

You do have the right to speak out, Seabeyond... NaturalHigh Dec 2013 #546

that would be a given seabeyond Dec 2013 #554

No, she was flagged because she was being alert stalked. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #283

That's not true Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #333

People see the alerts. They don't have to know who alerts to know they're bs alerts. kcr Dec 2013 #527

I saw them and understand why each and every one was hidden.... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #529

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. kcr Dec 2013 #530

We'll have to agree to disagree... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #537

That might be part of it kcr Dec 2013 #539

Why not allow I/P or Gun Issues in GD? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #362

Good question.... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #531

Really Violet? Sincerely, you think feminist issues ought not be posted in GD? boston bean Dec 2013 #549

Sorry, I meant to add a clarfication to my post yesterday... Violet_Crumble Dec 2013 #596

They end up being divisive because DU is too big tent. kcr Dec 2013 #535

This is what I learned on DU NobodyHere Dec 2013 #77

I'll venture your still young FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #80

What? redqueen Dec 2013 #145

When is it OK to look at a sexy woman, and telegraph that you want her? grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #292

Staring is always rude. Whether at a woman, or anyone else. redqueen Dec 2013 #299

"hitting on people should be a rarity, that time when all the planets align." Seriously? grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #556

Seriously? Lovers already know each other, obviously, so that's completely unrelated to this issue. redqueen Dec 2013 #581

I guess it's OK if she's wearing a sundress but don't stare at any of those masculine women in suits PassingFair Dec 2013 #431

he also believes we should not creep shame. he had an op on the subject. seabeyond Dec 2013 #434

OMG I live in Hollywood, it happens everyday. I actually find it flattering. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #557

ahhh, the shallowness of hollywood, lol. that just explains so much. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #560

Here's a good primer. NuclearDem Dec 2013 #457

Not bad, but I have asked some women what they were listening to on their mobile device and its led grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #561

What the hell did you THINK you'd learn? PassingFair Dec 2013 #374

you are doing it again. seabeyond Dec 2013 #381

Good in theory, but sometimes there is a loneliness that only love can fill. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #565

Why so many posts complaining of the existence of this debate? treestar Dec 2013 #87

I don't see too much "Discussing" in those threads FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #92

That's the most revealing part of all this. redqueen Dec 2013 #112

Everyone has their own "very important" issues in the party. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2013 #88

No one knows how it started klook Dec 2013 #97

Yes, but it's not a distraction. nt rrneck Dec 2013 #102

Like this thread? retread Dec 2013 #103

exactly. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #111

Those threads divided and conquered DU for a few days before and during Christmas. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #110

feminist issues should be of interest to democrats A Little Weird Dec 2013 #131

This poll presumes that all we should be talking about here is the 2014 midterms. DanTex Dec 2013 #143

AND, gender issues are sure to be a VERY important part of the 2014 election Squinch Dec 2013 #467

I cannot imagine how to "divide and conquer" a website as fractured as DU Demeter Dec 2013 #146

This is just unfreakin believable. boston bean Dec 2013 #152

I haven't been around much... one_voice Dec 2013 #411

Because the Democratic Party should only consider issues of importance BainsBane Dec 2013 #155

See Gamete run ... GeorgeGist Dec 2013 #163

While I think they CAN be divisive ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2013 #176

This whole debate arises out of a mutual confusion Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #179

please point out where a single post from junior or otherwise feminist uses all men in anything. seabeyond Dec 2013 #181

The point of my post was not to find examles on DU Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #191

i am sorry. personal ownership is important to me. as is truth. the foundation of what i post. seabeyond Dec 2013 #202

It's not a personal ownership, seabeyond. Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #206

thank you. i can easily keep my eyes open to any feminist suggesting it is all men, at any time, seabeyond Dec 2013 #212

Thanks! That's it exactly, IMO. I think feminism without femininity breeds patriarchy, as it puts grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #223

Competition IS the terms of the masculine ethos Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #235

That's why radical feminists focus on patriarchy as the source. redqueen Dec 2013 #280

You don't see the reverse as true? Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #305

Biological determinism only goes so far, though. redqueen Dec 2013 #321

sorry but that is a generalization and a stereotype. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #238

How does femininity relate to feminism? grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #240

Some women enjoy wearing business suits. There is nothing liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #256

Radical feminism seeks to end the ridiculous concept of "femininity". redqueen Dec 2013 #284

feminism without femininity? how a woman dresses? just eeew. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #254

But we're the problem on DU. kcr Dec 2013 #264

yup. and dare to say eeeew, to a man that demands women be his version of feminine to be heard. seabeyond Dec 2013 #265

But we just want to divide DU kcr Dec 2013 #282

they ignore them? nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #288

Or they actually agree with them kcr Dec 2013 #291

Who is 'them' polly7 Dec 2013 #293

Who is them? kcr Dec 2013 #296

Bullshit! polly7 Dec 2013 #300

I didn't say you did. kcr Dec 2013 #304

I didn't ask you what a humanist was, and obviously you don't have a clue. polly7 Dec 2013 #307

Pardon me. You asked me what was wrong with being a humanist. kcr Dec 2013 #311

As didn't anyone else here. I guess whatever point you were thinking you made was polly7 Dec 2013 #314

i am sorry. i get i have nothing to do with any of this. but i am sorry. seabeyond Dec 2013 #336

Really? polly7 Dec 2013 #340

Eh. It's the internet kcr Dec 2013 #347

Good. Glad to see you got out that mirror. nt. polly7 Dec 2013 #378

I know. It's only the feminists who get nasty. n/t kcr Dec 2013 #382

Aw. there's that old switcheroo again! polly7 Dec 2013 #388

Or you could claim someone's making things up kcr Dec 2013 #390

Well yeah, I did just claim it. Because it's true. Your posts are STILL here. nt. polly7 Dec 2013 #393

Or, maybe, when discussing things on DU kcr Dec 2013 #399

Jeebus, calm down. polly7 Dec 2013 #403

Jeebus, calm down.... seriously? you are suggesting kcr calm down as you have reamed her thru out seabeyond Dec 2013 #410

I've 'reamed her'!!! polly7 Dec 2013 #419

yes!!!!! seabeyond Dec 2013 #425

Proud of all that are you? polly7 Dec 2013 #426

I've 'reamed her'!!! yes!!!!! you really do not get it when i say i stop reading your posts seabeyond Dec 2013 #432

Oh I don't blame you - again! (and again and again) polly7 Dec 2013 #435

But you did the very same thing, in the very beginning. kcr Dec 2013 #413

I made nothing up. polly7 Dec 2013 #420

Okay, polly kcr Dec 2013 #427

You DID ascribe things to me I didn't say, ffs. polly7 Dec 2013 #429

Nope. kcr Dec 2013 #433

You said I asked you what a humanist was. polly7 Dec 2013 #436

Talk about muddying the waters kcr Dec 2013 #441

k. So stop the nasty crap towards me, if you're now admitting this. polly7 Dec 2013 #442

Well, I'm really sorry n/t kcr Dec 2013 #445

I don't know if you're sincere or not, but I'll gladly take that, and polly7 Dec 2013 #448

Yeah, kcr! You "accused her" of asking you a question! redqueen Dec 2013 #414

Read better. nt, polly7 Dec 2013 #422

true that. and you are probably right. seabeyond Dec 2013 #295

It's a shame the way you're treated on DU, Sea kcr Dec 2013 #298

Well I certainly know of no one else who's harvested delicate, personal information polly7 Dec 2013 #303

Well, I've never known anyone who broke into a safe, stole the hope diamond kcr Dec 2013 #306

Trivializing cruelty upon another woman. polly7 Dec 2013 #310

Well, I wouldn't trivialize grand theft, either kcr Dec 2013 #313

They weren't wild accusations. polly7 Dec 2013 #315

Well kcr Dec 2013 #317

No shit! polly7 Dec 2013 #320

Yes, basically that whole conversation of your twisting words and playing gotcha kcr Dec 2013 #322

LMAO!!!!! polly7 Dec 2013 #324

And the whole point of your posting revealed. n/t kcr Dec 2013 #326

Oh, hell no! polly7 Dec 2013 #329

You asked me what was wrong with being a humanist. kcr Dec 2013 #331

Wow. polly7 Dec 2013 #334

More twisting kcr Dec 2013 #343

It may come across that way to you. polly7 Dec 2013 #345

Well, why aren't you just 'you'? kcr Dec 2013 #351

First - WHERE did I call you ugly? Was that another of your 'mistakes'? polly7 Dec 2013 #354

Many denigrate half the population? Really? kcr Dec 2013 #357

So I didn't call you ugly? polly7 Dec 2013 #359

I guess we didn't read the same HOF then. kcr Dec 2013 #363

Or you conveniently miss all the nasty bullshit when it's directed towards those polly7 Dec 2013 #365

Otherwise known as confirmation bias. opiate69 Dec 2013 #367

Exactly. polly7 Dec 2013 #368

Amazing isn't it maddezmom Dec 2013 #379

It sure is, maddezmom. polly7 Dec 2013 #383

Wow kcr Dec 2013 #263

Holy shit! Here, grab a sundress and come with us! Retreat! PassingFair Dec 2013 #408

lol lol. and CALM down. someone is gonna have to define feminine for me though. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #412

OMG you were serious about the sundresses! PassingFair Dec 2013 #385

you did it a third time... lol. ah hahahah. got to this point i see. and the dots are connected. seabeyond Dec 2013 #394

I am in a state of bemused disbelief. Come on, girls, back to HOF!! PassingFair Dec 2013 #404

sheeeit, we have the sundresses on now, we will be safe. and... heard. hear me roar, lol. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #416

Oh, come on. You didn't just say that, did you? Squinch Dec 2013 #476

i am gigglin'. you are making me giggle. this thread was worth every womans shock seabeyond Dec 2013 #486

I could swear I read that, but maybe I'm just dreaming that I live in crazy town. Squinch Dec 2013 #534

Apparently, yes, lol! grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #568

You know that's really loony, right? Squinch Dec 2013 #573

Please tell me you were being sarcastic. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #504

Not a chance, and, grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #569

So, women in business meetings should be wearing sundresses because then they'll get more dates? Squinch Dec 2013 #574

ROFL, at this point, why not! grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #577

Why not? Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #582

Wow. That's pretty ridiculous. Unless you're over 80. Which is what I am guessing. Squinch Dec 2013 #592

Because the goal of dating is quantity of dates, not quality? Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #585

Hmmmm. I just got the phone number of a charming waitress... grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #588

Cool story bro. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #589

From my experience, grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #590

Oh good so anything a woman does is a sign of her interest. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #591

Of course not, but if caresses grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #593

I think your attempt to diversify your opinion is amusing. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #594

No, I love my mineshaft! In my view, women feeling compelled to wear suits to a business meeting grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #597

It's important to take your argument within context. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #598

Not what I'm trying to express. grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #599

Because obviously it's normal and natural and "correct" for women to wear... sundresses? MadrasT Dec 2013 #544

Yes, ladies, it is completely normal and natural for women to wear sundresses:) grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #571

Come on, then--something for everyone. The fight isn't over until men feel free to MADem Dec 2013 #548

False equivalency. boston bean Dec 2013 #242

I may have intentionally Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #246

When Republicans were obstructing progress and hurting this country kcr Dec 2013 #373

yes kcr. this is how i see it. and this is what the suggestion reminded me of. we know, seabeyond Dec 2013 #397

It's exactly what it reminds me of. kcr Dec 2013 #406

Maybe the false equivalency Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #401

See my post 406 kcr Dec 2013 #407

not one feminist has accused any du man a rapist. and not one feminsit has claimed all du men seabeyond Dec 2013 #423

Again, I wasn't addressing Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #449

i type words. plain and simple. if somebody reads something into it, i will clarify. anyone can seabeyond Dec 2013 #469

There will be other threads Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #480

i know that is NOT what you were going for. why i pause.... and will pay attention later. seabeyond Dec 2013 #484

Well no, there were a couple of threads... (TRIGGER WARNING) redqueen Dec 2013 #453

yes. seabeyond Dec 2013 #475

Oh, my Goddess libodem Dec 2013 #302

If it's any consolation Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #309

Yes libodem Dec 2013 #352

Sorry you had to encounter people like that Shankapotomus Dec 2013 #366

I'll get over it libodem Dec 2013 #372

Feminism has it's own section in topics. Shouldn't all posts be in the Feminism sarcasmo Dec 2013 #183

no discussion of womens issues in GD? AA and lbgt has its own forum. no race or gay issues seabeyond Dec 2013 #186

Let it get over run by one topic then the section becomes dominated by one topic. sarcasmo Dec 2013 #187

Why is that a bad thing? NuclearDem Dec 2013 #208

I'm not saying don't discuss them FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #196

i cannot really address that as i have started no OPs in GD. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #203

And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or any 1 group FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #209

i can hear you on that. what i cannot see though, a PSA that is valued, appreciated by many, seeing seabeyond Dec 2013 #215

You lost me there - What PSA ? FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #428

this is what started the last round. seabeyond Dec 2013 #437

Don't know what to think of arguing about that FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #472

Where's the option for "It's what passes for a hobby, for a group of people who dearly miss META" Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #194

I think the people who endlessly argue back and forth and back and forth might want liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #200

Intellectual Masturbation FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #211

"I still jerk off manually" Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #221

OTHER - Where's the entertain and LMFAO button, HAHA! grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #199

Is there something going on? Agschmid Dec 2013 #207

Feminists got uppity again, is the short of it. nt boston bean Dec 2013 #228

What get me kcr Dec 2013 #218

Personally I like to concentrate my efforts on working with men and women liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #224

Nothing wrong with that. kcr Dec 2013 #231

I don't think any DUer is above being told they are being obnoxious stevenleser Dec 2013 #241

Of course not. But I don't think that's what's happening. kcr Dec 2013 #251

You're kidding, right? Did you see the links I gave you? Anti-semitism is a huge issue here. stevenleser Dec 2013 #267

Where did I say it wasn't? kcr Dec 2013 #270

Now we are getting somewhere. stevenleser Dec 2013 #275

No kcr Dec 2013 #276

it was not strawman steven, it was experience. i am well aware of your argument. i know what you seabeyond Dec 2013 #287

It's a total strawman. I said one thing, you changed it to mean something else. stevenleser Dec 2013 #495

your whole post is about feminists shutting up about porn. YOU do not get to tell us feminists what seabeyond Dec 2013 #501

No, it's not. That is your strawman. You dont get to tell me what my words are after twisting them. stevenleser Dec 2013 #502

bullshit. you and i both know the difference you refer about the two waves. your fuckin porn. seabeyond Dec 2013 #507

Two of your favorite underhanded tactics in one subject line. Strawman and accusation of "my porn" stevenleser Dec 2013 #511

it is a hoot and so are you. seabeyond Dec 2013 #518

excuse me - Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #521

For the record, I was not the alerter. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #522

I didn't think you were, stevenleser. I have my suspicions as to whom it is and, it is not you. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #523

Didn't mean to imply you were accusing me, just wanted that out there. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #525

Although I have to say I agree with the alert, even if I didn't push the button myself. stevenleser Dec 2013 #526

I think she meant it as the general you not, the personal you. That is how I took it. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #528

Yep, she did as you note. She and several other folks routinely accuse people of that who stevenleser Dec 2013 #532

steven.... we have had conversation about this for a very long time. no, it is not the seabeyond Dec 2013 #538

but, you argue porn is fine and has value. so it is not an insult to you. there is nothing wrong seabeyond Dec 2013 #536

No, that is not what I argue. Are we going to set a strawman record for you in this thread? stevenleser Dec 2013 #540

omg. i brought levity to the thread with my cartoon. thanks tuesday. seabeyond Dec 2013 #524

so you, will define what we are allowed to discuss? nah. doesnt work that way steven. seabeyond Dec 2013 #271

Thank you for giving a perfect example of what I am talking about. nt stevenleser Dec 2013 #273

we already went thru the attempted purge of some feminist discussion. it failed. seabeyond Dec 2013 #277

What attempted purge of feminist discussion? nt. polly7 Dec 2013 #286

Yeah, I can't wait to see the answer to that one, since only the admins would be able to do such a stevenleser Dec 2013 #496

There won't be an answer. polly7 Dec 2013 #497

If I recall, you wanted HoF shut down. boston bean Dec 2013 #553

Glass houses give an illusion of spaciousness. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #558

I'm not the one denying it ever happened. boston bean Dec 2013 #559

You started it. No you did... NaturalHigh Dec 2013 #562

Yeah, but I'm not entirely sure how that fits here. boston bean Dec 2013 #563

LOL...okay. NaturalHigh Dec 2013 #570

Sorry... it sounded as if you were criticizing someone for trying to shut down your group. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #566

To me it sounded exactly as what I wrote. boston bean Dec 2013 #567

Do yourself a favor, LJ... NaturalHigh Dec 2013 #572

The wars would NOT be "never ending", because the posters would be banned immediately. PassingFair Dec 2013 #418

If you actually clicked on the links, you would see that is not true. stevenleser Dec 2013 #493

I think these are legitimate issues. I stay away from most the threads though Number23 Dec 2013 #227

I am not afraid I'm going to get raped every time I leave the house like women liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #230

Thank you for so exquisitely making my point Number23 Dec 2013 #233

thank you for only taking a part of what I said and disregarding the rest. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #239

There was no argument. Your intentions may be good but that comment was exactly why Number23 Dec 2013 #269

You know nothing about me, but go on believing that you can judge the entirety of who I am based liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #278

If you'd rather put me on ignore than check your own cultural biases, that's on you Number23 Dec 2013 #281

+1, a little self reflection goes a mile. boston bean Dec 2013 #344

I wouldn't have minded actually having a conversation about it, to be honest Number23 Dec 2013 #488

You really truly did prove the point, in this case. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #409

. Squinch Dec 2013 #483

It's sad that it has come to this. stevenleser Dec 2013 #229

That makes a lot of sense libodem Dec 2013 #338

Yep, Look at my #267 and the response in #271 stevenleser Dec 2013 #498

. libodem Dec 2013 #505

Yes, and for the first time in almost 10 years... Hosnon Dec 2013 #274

There is a certain group of people... one_voice Dec 2013 #319

and there is this... CTyankee Dec 2013 #327

A means by whom to divide and conquer? Iggo Dec 2013 #346

This thread shows that DU is at least finally admitting that there are MRA posters here. Squinch Dec 2013 #348

Who? polly7 Dec 2013 #353

People who do these things: NoOneMan Dec 2013 #384

Wow, that's quite the thread. nt polly7 Dec 2013 #398

Yep, a long thread about trying to characterize DUers as MRAs. stevenleser Dec 2013 #503

I'm starting to see it as similar to how Bush needed to invent terra in Iraq ... polly7 Dec 2013 #509

That is an interesting observation. It certainly is a lot of time and effort invested stevenleser Dec 2013 #513

Exactly, steven. nt polly7 Dec 2013 #515

That is not an MRA. Not even close. 10 seconds on an actual MRA website will show you that. stevenleser Dec 2013 #499

Careful, remember the threat of libel lawsuits, and PPR campaigns. redqueen Dec 2013 #387

Considering some of the sites you've linked to and the ugly crap you've introduced here polly7 Dec 2013 #391

Your posts contain so much projection, it's not even funny. nt redqueen Dec 2013 #402

No, they don't. polly7 Dec 2013 #405

Eek! Squinch Dec 2013 #392

Name one, then we'll ask him if you're right. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #471

You can see the divide and conquer right in this very thread. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #396

+1 Marr Dec 2013 #455

I find it interesting that a thread on one of these subjects was posted a couple hours after this: Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #489

Try explaining the idiocy of idiots to the idiots themselves. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #400

+1000 TheBlackAdder Dec 2013 #533

over 400 replies and over 5000 views..... madrchsod Dec 2013 #421

It's not only intended to disrupt, it's inherently and entirely a strawman. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #490

There is not one person on DU who self-identifies as a Republican troll. Is that evidence there are seaglass Dec 2013 #545

One can go to other websites... lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #555

This message was self-deleted by its author davidn3600 Dec 2013 #541

Other...since I don't think disagreeing with the HOF crowd... NaturalHigh Dec 2013 #543

I think both groups take their issues seriously - TBF Dec 2013 #547

Good post trumad Dec 2013 #550

No, I don't think there's any conspiracy. Crunchy Frog Dec 2013 #552

If one is truly a supporter of equality, evaluate each argument against the equal rights amendment. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #564

How did you get it in your head that a single law... Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #580

The authors of the ERA did it perfectly. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #583

Ah but does the law mention the difference between sex and gender? Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #584

Give me an example of a sexually discriminatory law that would pass ERA muster. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #586

My point this whole time has been that making the ERA... Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #587

SIMPLE... This recent madness needs to be discussed in one or more of the gender forums. NYC_SKP Dec 2013 #595