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I don't know what that tells us. For example, Vance said "well they might not actually be eating the cats and dogs in Springfield, BUT..." and that didn't change any Trump supporters' opinion about it. In other words, the interviewer didn't win even when Vance admitted it wasn't literally true. It doesn't matter if they are lying about the details, there is a bigger message that is working. "These immigrants are different, strange, they are a threat, and Democrats are coddling them and defending them and have some nefarious purpose for doing so." Saying that they aren't actually eating pets, or don't actually have "MS 13" tattooed on their hand is completely ineffective. It is all a distraction, and it works.

I think they see the lying to reporters as a way to "own" the reporter and to own us. They are right about that. They win those transactions. By "win" I mean they buttress their base of support and they get the reactions from us and from the press that they want and that they can use against us.

We debunk all of Trump's lies, the 20,000 or whatever we are up to now, but we fail to successfully challenge the main narrative. To do so would require a much more aggressive and radical approach.