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Metaphorical

(2,608 posts)
52. This is part of what I see as a soft secession
Sat Jul 5, 2025, 06:33 PM
Jul 2025

Trump is acting illegally - in effect claiming moneys that were already allocated by a lawful process for non-legal means, and doing so in a punitive manner. A quick breakdown (note, Google generated, so take with a grain of salt) of donor states and how much more they pay minus. how much they receive.

* New York: $89 billion
* California: $78 billion
* New Jersey: $70 billion
* Texas: $67 billion
* Washington: $55 billion
* Massachusetts: $46 billion
* Minnesota: $44 billion
* Ohio: $37 billion
* Illinois: $28 billion
* Missouri: $22 billion
* Florida: $17 billion
* Georgia: $14 billion
* Colorado: $14 billion
* Delaware: $11 billion
* Nebraska: $8 billion
* Utah: $7 billion
* Connecticut: $5 billion
* Tennessee: $4 billion
* Rhode Island: $3 billion

Of these, the net blue state contributions is around $400 billion per annum (red states are about $180 billion) than they receive. For clarity, here's what the rest of country looks like in terms of what they receive net:

Wyoming: +$339M
North Dakota: +$741M
New Hampshire: +$794M
Pennsylvania: +$965M
South Dakota: +$1B
Arkansas: +$1B
Kansas: +$2B
Nevada: +$3B
Wisconsin: +$3B
Vermont: +$4B
Indiana: +$4B
Iowa: +$6B
Idaho: +$6B
Montana: +$6B
North Carolina: +$10B
Alaska: +$11B
Hawaii: +$11B
Maine: +$12B
District of Columbia: +$14B
Oklahoma: +$18B
Oregon: +$18B
West Virginia: +$20B
Michigan: +$21B
Kentucky: +$23B
Louisiana: +$26B
New Mexico: +$29B
Mississippi: +$30B
Maryland: +$35B
South Carolina: +$37B
Arizona: +$40B
Alabama: +$41B
Virginia: +$79B

Virginia and Maryland may be a bit of a surprise, but in these cases, most of the wages being paid are paid by Federal workers, military personnel, etc. (as well as facility and related costs), and as such is considered a deficit in terms of expenditures. It is likely that both states would be firmly in the donor category (as a guess, around 8th and 12th respectively) if viewed primarily through the lens of social program spending.

Trump's modus operandi is to stiff his contractors, then drag it out in court when they sue, figuring that he can outlast them. The problem here is that if states start encouraging businesses to pay taxes to their respective states rather than to the Federal government (which is where I see this going), there really is nothing that Trump can do about it, because the same strategy can be used against him. He could threaten to move military bases, but beyond the overall upheaval coming FROM the military about doing this, the reality is that most of those bases are large, established naval ports, staging facilities for military aircraft, submarine servicing yards, and construction facilities, many with major strategic significance. What is he going to do? Move them to Florida or Texas which have already maxed out all available harbours? Florida has lousy harbors, New Orleans is too siltified, Mobile, AL is not much better. Most Red States are mostly or completely landlocked.

We are moving into a post-Constitutional period. When Trump withholds monies that have been congressionally allocated, he is in contravention of the Constitution. If he declares Martial Law, this is an abrogation of the Constitution if it is not supported by Congress, and I fully expect that he would use whatever trickery he can get away with to keep Congress from not giving it to him. Once that happens, the contract that the states have with the Federal government (which is what the Constitution is) becomes null and void, and either a new contract needs to be drawn up and agreed to by all parties, or we will end up going our separate ways.

Everyone seems to believe that the problem will magically go away - Trump will keel over from a heart attack, someone will fly a weapons-laden drone into Mara Lago, etc., but I think we have to work on the assumption that if Trump doesn't honor the Constitution, then he will also do everything he can to hold onto power illegally, generally by making the illegal legal, but only with respect to him.

Thus the soft secession. In a way, Trump is a symptom rather than the problem. The system itself is falling apart, because there's no real mechanism to adapt the Constitution in a politically efficacious manner and because private actors (big multinationals) have reached a point where they can capture the regulatory mechanisms of the country.





Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I have been saying that the states who he moves against should do something like this. OldBaldy1701E Jul 2025 #1
I don't know if it's legal but it's worth a try. COL Mustard Jul 2025 #21
It definitely doesn't sound legal, but it can at least delay and maybe deny state funds to an asset ancianita Jul 2025 #35
They can drag their feet like tfg, tie it up in courts and not comply with the rulings.. What are they gonna do, sue? mitch96 Jul 2025 #46
They'll grab him off the street and send him to Justice matters. Jul 2025 #51
Exactly. (n/t) OldBaldy1701E Jul 2025 #61
I don't see how that would work FBaggins Jul 2025 #2
They would just move their assets. Hornedfrog2000 Jul 2025 #3
OUR ASSETS! BidenRocks Jul 2025 #38
Can the garnish income from the properties? Scrivener7 Jul 2025 #6
can't they prevent the government from accessing their properties? LymphocyteLover Jul 2025 #7
No. In fact the Biden administration proved this FBaggins Jul 2025 #12
The "Liens on their property" is more of an analogy/euphemistic term BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #9
The example given is awful FBaggins Jul 2025 #13
"Withholding payroll taxes for state employees screws the employees" BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #17
Not a crime at all. There's no federal statute mandating the process whereby withholding makes its way to the Feds. paleotn Jul 2025 #27
Let me clarify - the employees are not screwed Klaus Hergersheimer Jul 2025 #31
Welcome to DU LetMyPeopleVote Jul 2025 #62
Exactly, good info Farmer-Rick Jul 2025 #18
I wrote the following downthread BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #24
Thanks for the info. Farmer-Rick Jul 2025 #26
In theory they could foreclose Nasruddin Jul 2025 #30
Isnt selling off public lands one of the many problems in the dump bill? quakerboy Jul 2025 #55
That part was dropped a few days ago FBaggins Jul 2025 #57
Nice idea but Supreme Court will eventually intervene against states. Is K-9 funding mandated by congress? lostnfound Jul 2025 #4
The education funding was mandated by Congress, yes LymphocyteLover Jul 2025 #8
How would retaliation from pedo Trump actually work? Farmer-Rick Jul 2025 #23
How would the states get the employer to give them the money instead of it being sent directly to the US Treasury? MichMan Jul 2025 #49
Aside from regular state taxes you mean? Farmer-Rick Jul 2025 #50
I didn't see any specifics in the OP about what type of state payments would be held. MichMan Jul 2025 #54
Google is helpful BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #58
The "employer" in this case is *THE STATE* BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #53
See paleotn response to that upthread. Dixiegrrrl Jul 2025 #29
Turn off utilities. Historic NY Jul 2025 #5
This has been tried before, didn't work. DUU Jul 2025 #10
Welcome to DU orangecrush Jul 2025 #15
Got a link on that? NJCher Jul 2025 #19
There is nothing in that article, nor an earlier NBC one, that says anything about "federal property". BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #20
That doesn't sound like the same thing Farmer-Rick Jul 2025 #25
Schlump definitely has some form of dementia. ShazzieB Jul 2025 #60
Good strategy. You play the game presented to you, and stand tall. /.nt bucolic_frolic Jul 2025 #11
YES orangecrush Jul 2025 #14
If it's a "secret weapon" why announce it? NoMoreRepugs Jul 2025 #16
I think the term "secret" is more "slang" than literal. BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #22
I need a "rhetorical question" emoji. NoMoreRepugs Jul 2025 #40
DUer tanyev uses this BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #42
Writers NJCher Jul 2025 #37
I say "YES" let's do it!! h2ebits Jul 2025 #28
Trump's properties maliaSmith Jul 2025 #32
Fight the POWER!!! sunflowerseed Jul 2025 #33
Isn't this legally just a series of setoffs? rzemanfl Jul 2025 #34
I'm for it hope California does it. republianmushroom Jul 2025 #36
The Fed may have the bldg or whatever, BidenRocks Jul 2025 #39
I don't think this has to do with what they call "real property" (buildings) BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #41
Please see my post #34 above regarding setoff. rzemanfl Jul 2025 #43
I saw it BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #48
Newsom is considering doing something similar... AntiFascist Jul 2025 #44
I am glad they are exploring ways to shift money to their own state from the fed mdbl Jul 2025 #45
Excelent idea! Josiesdad Jul 2025 #47
This is part of what I see as a soft secession Metaphorical Jul 2025 #52
This is soveirgn citizen tactics. Jacson6 Jul 2025 #56
Problem is BumRushDaShow Jul 2025 #59
Right you are BRDS - the executive branch is provoking Blue States into "getting even" as the only option left FakeNoose Jul 2025 #63
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