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thucythucy

(9,043 posts)
117. Hi NNadir, I'm always glad to see you here.
Tue Aug 5, 2025, 11:09 AM
Aug 2025

I've been meaning for a while now to ask your thoughts on something, and figure now is as good a time as any.

What I'm about to describe is my principle worry about building lots of nuclear reactors here on earth.

I think that many of the technical issues that folks raise in opposition, for instance the issue of spent fuel and other waste have--at least on paper--technical solutions available to us today. There are problems of course, but we have the technology in place to deal with these issues, providing the funding and politcal will is there as needed.

It's the political/social/human issues, the ones I'm about to describe, that worry me, and which seem to me less amenable to solution.

I'm thinking, for instance, of what's happening now in Ukraine. We had Russian troops digging trenches inside the Chernobyl exclusion zone, thus re-exposing dangerous materials. But even worse, in terms of potential danger, has been the threat to the Zaporizhzhia Power Station, the largest in Europe and one of the 10 largest plants in the world. For a while the plant was caught between warring armies, and as I recall there were concerns that a stray shell or drone might hit the plant, either by accident or deliberately. And it wasn't even necessary for such a strike to put the plant and the region around it at risk, since there was a period when the plant was understaffed--perhaps dangerously so--because many workers didn't relish the idea of commuting through a war zone to get to work. At least this was how this was described in the press.

And the idea of a deliberate attack on a power station isn't all that far fetched. Evidently the Russians fired a drone at the containment arch that now covers Chernobyl, punching a good size and thus compromising the air pressure system that keeps air from escaping in the event of a wider breach or accident of some kind.



You might say that we can try to build reactors only in regions of relative political and social stability. But how can we guarantee such stability for the time frames this would entail--decades or more, probably far more? Back in the 1970s and '80s, when these power stations were built, most everyone assumed the USSR was among the most stable regimes on the planet. And yet here we are.

I can't think of a single region on earth that has been politically and socially stable for the length of time needed here, aside from Antarctica.

Granted, any major piece of infrastructure is vulnerable to the ravages of war. Films of post-war Europe certainly bring that point home. But the effects of a nuclear plant being bombed or rocketed are so severe that even a single instance would be catastrophic. The only other example I can think of that would be at all comparable to blasting a nuclear plant would be smashing a major dam. The British did this to the Ruhr dams during WWII, which caused major flooding and killed perhaps thousands of people. But disastrous as that was, the cleanup was a fairly straight-forward affair, and those regions that were flooded now appear to be entirely unscathed. I don't know if that would be at all the case in the event of a similar attack upon even a smaller nuclear power plant.

I wonder: what are your thoughts on this? A while back you posted about proposals to build plants across Africa, which raised this issue for me, but even before that I'd been mulling this over as a concern.

Are my worries about this unfounded? Is there a way to construct plants so that they would be invulnerable to any surrounding upheaval--civil war or war between nations such as between Iran and Iraq, intense civil unrest such as we've seen in recent decades in Yugoslavia or Rwanda? And even if the physical plant could be made secure in all circumstances, how do we ensure safe levels of staffing for the life of any plant, so we don't see problems such as what we've seen in Ukraine?

A long winded post, I know. But for me this is the one huge stumbling block I see to building the number of facilities needed to replace carbon based forms of energy. All the other issues, like I said, seem solvable, at least on a technical level. But humanity is so unstable, human beings so often destructive, and the potential for even one major plant to cause widespread and long lasting damage should it fall victim to that sort of human depravity, I have difficulty seeing how we can guarantee with any degree of certainty that such an event could never happen.

Is this something that has been considered by engineers such as yourself? Are there any fixes for this that you know of?

Thanks for reading through all this. I'm very much looking forward to your reply and the possibility that my worries in this regard might be put to rest.

Best wishes--

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Somebody didn't see Space 1999. Intractable Aug 2025 #1
I love that series! markodochartaigh Aug 2025 #7
With Space 1999, there's much to "whine" about while eating the cheese. Intractable Aug 2025 #15
Cool show! Brings back good memories. :) Dave Bowman Aug 2025 #9
I came here to post this very item IbogaProject Aug 2025 #12
First thing I thought of Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2025 #89
OMFG montanacowboy Aug 2025 #2
I can't even understand why this would be a goal of anyone genxlib Aug 2025 #3
Oddly enough, this could actually be one of the rare "good ideas" pursued by the F47 regime 0rganism Aug 2025 #19
instead of the man in the moon ... DBoon Aug 2025 #32
Truly awful, yes, but still preferable to trying to establish a half-assed Mars colony without running a moon base first 0rganism Aug 2025 #41
Um lonely bird Aug 2025 #42
The scary thing is, I think THEY think they are MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #78
Or a penal colony on. the moon? flamingdem Aug 2025 #68
If it's too small to be seen with the naked eye, it'll be called a "micro"-penal colony 0rganism Aug 2025 #76
That would be micro-penile RainCaster Aug 2025 #80
With cooling towers and massive amounts of water? Martin Eden Aug 2025 #95
They would need alternative cooling strategies, as dark-side temps run around -130'C and sunlit-side +120'C 0rganism Aug 2025 #123
It's a huge investment, so careful planning & purpose are essential Martin Eden Aug 2025 #124
"What possible use would energy on the moon be" PSPS Aug 2025 #24
Such devices would be there to power a future base, refining local resources, research, etc. Gore1FL Aug 2025 #56
Maybe a really, really long extension cord Seinan Sensei Aug 2025 #73
It could power Trump's ego DBoon Aug 2025 #103
advertising billboard lapfog_1 Aug 2025 #38
Just another distraction from Epstein. MacKasey Aug 2025 #4
🥱😴 ... & ... 😜🤣😂🤣😜🤣😂🤣😜😜 Oopsie Daisy Aug 2025 #5
Yes BigMin28 Aug 2025 #6
What's the point? How stupid. Srkdqltr Aug 2025 #8
I'm all for space exploration but this is dumb. Dave Bowman Aug 2025 #10
Well okay BumRushDaShow Aug 2025 #11
Here's an idea, Duffy - put pressure on Musk to sort out his "Spaceship" vehicle muriel_volestrangler Aug 2025 #13
I'm more in favor of a safe airline industry and FAA safety. Norrrm Aug 2025 #14
Planning for a reactor on the moon dates back at least to the Obama administration onenote Aug 2025 #16
fuel Nasruddin Aug 2025 #17
I'm shocked that the source isn't the Onion. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2025 #18
Or the Simpsons GreenWave Aug 2025 #27
I kept looking for Onion or Borrowitz MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #81
Maybe we should fix our planet first. chowder66 Aug 2025 #20
Bah, no profit or glamour in that! OldBaldy1701E Aug 2025 #96
Um, why? Mz Pip Aug 2025 #21
It's the planned... littlemissmartypants Aug 2025 #54
To make RICH men RICHER with ZERO results Bengus81 Aug 2025 #94
...But we can't have universal health care. I can't wrap my fucking head around this idiocy. Karasu Aug 2025 #22
And you left out 900 million to refurb the Qatari luxury jetliner. yellow dahlia Aug 2025 #34
Oh, geez. There's obviously plenty I left out, or I'd be here all day, but I really don't know how I missed THAT one. Karasu Aug 2025 #39
I'm shocked nobody has floated the idea on how to project the AT&T or Amazon logo on the moon surface... EarthFirst Aug 2025 #23
Why not Windmills? thought crime Aug 2025 #25
Such an evil thing to say... hunter Aug 2025 #63
Duffy is an idiot! BidenRocks Aug 2025 #26
Not duffeys's plan RoseTrellis Aug 2025 #99
No money for healthcare, education, science, social security, medicare. Irish_Dem Aug 2025 #28
What could go wrong? yellow dahlia Aug 2025 #31
Right, what happens if the idiots blow up the moon? Irish_Dem Aug 2025 #33
That's what I said - Moon? Who needs a moon? yellow dahlia Aug 2025 #37
What could go wrong with one of Musk's rockets carrying nukes. Irish_Dem Aug 2025 #40
I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't The Onion DBoon Aug 2025 #29
Me too! WestMichRad Aug 2025 #48
I just turned to Mr. Dahlia and said: What's wrong with these people? yellow dahlia Aug 2025 #30
The project is set to start in two weeks. sop Aug 2025 #35
You have got to be fucking kidding me. Karasu Aug 2025 #66
Yes, I am kidding. sop Aug 2025 #67
I can't believe I didn't pick up on that! LOL!!! Karasu Aug 2025 #74
shithole and comrades cut NASA monies and staff and are pissed off at musk................... Lovie777 Aug 2025 #36
Trump needs to . . . AverageOldGuy Aug 2025 #43
How much fissionable material would be needed. The Madcap Aug 2025 #44
That was my first thought as well. thucythucy Aug 2025 #105
At least it would be taking off from TX or FL. The Madcap Aug 2025 #113
Why would put a reactor on the most Aviation Pro Aug 2025 #45
It required lots of power to extract Helium 3 Abnredleg Aug 2025 #110
Shot over Aviation Pro Aug 2025 #114
Shot out!! Abnredleg Aug 2025 #115
SQUIRREL!!! maspaha Aug 2025 #46
So let me see if I understand angrychair Aug 2025 #47
Your assessment is exactly correct. llmart Aug 2025 #60
I can understand how a moon reactor can produce heat.... reACTIONary Aug 2025 #49
NNadir is really our DU expert in this area. ... littlemissmartypants Aug 2025 #57
I don't think a steam turbine would be a problem in principle muriel_volestrangler Aug 2025 #85
You may be right. I sort of dismissed the idea without much thought. reACTIONary Aug 2025 #121
Um ok, why not solar? BWdem4life Aug 2025 #50
I had the same question C_U_L8R Aug 2025 #51
There are a lot of impact sites ... littlemissmartypants Aug 2025 #58
Night time on the moon lasts about 14 days. hunter Aug 2025 #64
Thanks. I knew it got dark, but I don't know for how long. reACTIONary Aug 2025 #70
Solar is defiantly in the plan - plus there is a nation state issue... reACTIONary Aug 2025 #69
declare away. put a reactor on the moon and MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #83
It does seem that an "exclusion zone" would be hard to enforce.... reACTIONary Aug 2025 #120
a nuclear reactor on the moon MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #128
A moon nuke... reACTIONary Aug 2025 #129
You think they could monitor a reactor on the moon MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #130
Yep... They sure can! reACTIONary Aug 2025 #131
Sorry if I'm missing the point MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #133
You asked if I think.... reACTIONary Aug 2025 #134
too woke. But yeah, duh MadameButterfly Aug 2025 #82
I thought reactors require cooling water The Blue Flower Aug 2025 #52
Air cooled reactors have been around since the 1960's Abnredleg Aug 2025 #111
"Air cooling" is not exactly a lunar option, with no air muriel_volestrangler Aug 2025 #119
It was great for mankind to go to the moon 56 years ago. Jacson6 Aug 2025 #53
Elon... littlemissmartypants Aug 2025 #59
If he wants to privately fund it then he can do it. No since wasting tax payers money to go to bunch of rocks. n/t Jacson6 Aug 2025 #102
(!) Marcuse Aug 2025 #55
Well, if we cancel the multi-trillion dollar tax cut for billionaires, that *might* pay for it... Jack Valentino Aug 2025 #61
Translation: We intend to drain a lot of money into our pockets, but good luck mahina Aug 2025 #62
I don't see anything wrong with the basic premise. hunter Aug 2025 #65
Yes. Location, Location, Location. reACTIONary Aug 2025 #71
Who VOTED for that? nt SouthBayDem Aug 2025 #72
There's very little gravity on the moon , right? Figarosmom Aug 2025 #75
Just send the building materials to the moon on trucks. Botany Aug 2025 #97
This plus a dome covering the entire country? IcyPeas Aug 2025 #77
This is not simple. And it is terrifying. colorado_ufo Aug 2025 #79
Old project initiated in November, 2021. RoseTrellis Aug 2025 #84
Actually a continuation of efforts that began in 2015 onenote Aug 2025 #88
Wow RoseTrellis Aug 2025 #91
A bad idea is a bad idea thucythucy Aug 2025 #112
We aren't even a year in JustAnotherGen Aug 2025 #86
There is probably no one on this board as pronuclear energy as I am. This said... NNadir Aug 2025 #87
Hi NNadir, I'm always glad to see you here. thucythucy Aug 2025 #117
The MF wanted to blow the moon up. I remember. Here we go. twodogsbarking Aug 2025 #90
Gonna need a real long extension cord Conjuay Aug 2025 #92
Maybe build the Ballroom 3825-87867 Aug 2025 #93
Let's see. hazard pay and shipping and logicstics, OK 40 trillion sir, please click here to finalize your order. Brainfodder Aug 2025 #98
Please, lets get him a one way ticket. milestogo Aug 2025 #100
Kick. I duped you. underpants Aug 2025 #101
Gil Scott Heron anticipated this long ago DBoon Aug 2025 #104
How about announcing improvements to the Air Traffic Control system. Sneederbunk Aug 2025 #106
Republican announces daycare center on Mars. ananda Aug 2025 #107
Just sayin' Docreed2003 Aug 2025 #108
This is part of Project Artemis Abnredleg Aug 2025 #109
Long term it's a good idea NickB79 Aug 2025 #116
I have the most idiotic, stupid, brain-dead government in history. Torchlight Aug 2025 #118
Duffy has entered the "How stupid can you get?" contest Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2025 #122
Even if this were feasible mysuzuki2 Aug 2025 #125
That ought to lower grocery prices and utility bills for Americans dalton99a Aug 2025 #126
That's one of the most idiotic ideas I've heard in a long time. What are you going to use to cool the reactor? patphil Aug 2025 #127
Surely Duffy is afraid of the moon if he is afraid of riding the subway. travelingthrulife Aug 2025 #132
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