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Tommy_Carcetti

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52. Actually, the Ukrainian government had the upper hand in the fight very recently.

Thu Aug 28, 2014, 10:18 AM

Aug 2014

They had uprooted the separatists from their primary operations center in Sloviansk back in July, and retook several other key towns as well.

Then shortly thereafter, on July 17th, pro-Russian separatists recklessly shot MH17 out of the sky. (And yes, all logical signs point to pro-Russian separatists as the culprits.) Whatever remaining shred of sympathy and support for the separatists vanished apart from Russian state media and its parrots.

Following that, the "People's Government" in "Novorossiya" started desperately shuffling its leadership.

Then, just in the past couple of weeks, there has been a magical, out of the blue pushback from the separatists. This seems to have coincided with increasing reports of incursions by the Russian regular army. Do you really see this as a great coincidence? It's as if Moscow knew they were losing the proxy war with its reckless and inept separatist tools, so they figured it was time to bring the pros in.

Oh yeah, one more thing: Five.

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Russian and Ukraine troops battle in south, prompting fears that invasion has begun [View all] LloydS of New London Aug 2014 OP

Funny thing is, Russia was pissed that NATO's influence got closer and closer to Russia's border. DetlefK Aug 2014 #1

Ironically, Russia is single-handedly strengthening NATO. joshcryer Aug 2014 #2

And visa versa. newthinking Aug 2014 #5

NATO is no military threat to Russa and Russia knows that. DetlefK Aug 2014 #14

Estonia and Latvia are NATO countries. amandabeech Aug 2014 #97

Norway is NATO, though. Can't trust those bloodthirsty Vikings, you know. :) freshwest Aug 2014 #244

I'm part Viking myself, but from Southwestern Sweden. amandabeech Aug 2014 #248

Social freedoms? Man from Pickens Aug 2014 #102

Just a few years ago there was talk of disbanding. joshcryer Aug 2014 #23

"So you actually admit that NATO has essentially surrounded Russia" Not... EX500rider Aug 2014 #100

You forgot Sarah watching Putin from her porch. And likes what she sees! freshwest Sep 2014 #249

I forgot NOTHING! lol EX500rider Sep 2014 #250

BWAHAHA! Thanks, that's a keeper! freshwest Sep 2014 #253

Who considers NATO obsolete? JackRiddler Aug 2014 #140

The 2012 Chicago summit left questions for NATO's role. joshcryer Aug 2014 #171

TIME mag coverage as evidence! JackRiddler Aug 2014 #178

Uh, you said "exactly no one." TIME magazine isn't "no one." joshcryer Aug 2014 #187

Uh, you're not reading, you are misquoting. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #188

Yeah, TIME, "not credible." joshcryer Aug 2014 #192

Your "abusive and dismissive attitude" to truth is the real problem. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #206

Pointless drivel. joshcryer Aug 2014 #238

How obsessively you latch on... JackRiddler Aug 2014 #239

Minor quibble? joshcryer Aug 2014 #240

Oh my god, I am so evil! JackRiddler Aug 2014 #241

Looks like NATO's expansion was justified. joshcryer Aug 2014 #243

The hilarity of the self-fulfilling prophecy. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #246

Wow - what a fantasy you reel there... mazzarro Sep 2014 #251

Ok which is it? Ukraine is *now* afraid that Russia has entered in? So they were lying before? newthinking Aug 2014 #3

Russian troops have been there all along. The question is whether Russia will abandon pretense.... Adrahil Aug 2014 #37

Russia is always invading Ukraine. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #242

Did the Russians get lost again? I know this isn't funny.. war never is. Cha Aug 2014 #4

We may have actually *really* left the "proxy" war stage and entered overt war newthinking Aug 2014 #6

Lost LloydS of New London Aug 2014 #7

That was a better television series than this, though... freshwest Aug 2014 #159

Reminds me of my idiot squad leader who lost us in the woods. jakeXT Aug 2014 #8

With a difference. Igel Aug 2014 #12

So it's incompetence sending Russians with Russian documentation and no plan ? /nt jakeXT Aug 2014 #16

This reply was for a different post happyslug Aug 2014 #35

The pro-Banderite faction simply makes it up as they go along. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #40

Where did you get your information of a 2-3 hour firefight??? happyslug Aug 2014 #42

Plans don't result in action. joshcryer Aug 2014 #189

My Comments were as to what the RUSSIAN Troops were capable of. happyslug Aug 2014 #247

Yes, years ago. Igel Aug 2014 #11

Yeah but it's not their fault. Hosnon Aug 2014 #46

Somebody made a map for them.. Cha Aug 2014 #147

As you say, war isn't funny, but you made me chuckle nonetheless. They "got lost again". Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #132

Ukraine crisis: 'Thousands of Russians' fighting in east Bosonic Aug 2014 #9

This invasion from Russia has Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #10

Exactly, Duckhunter.. Cha Aug 2014 #15

We've known it since "rebel" bodies were being sent to Russia for burial. Or "home". 7962 Aug 2014 #26

Ack, you spoke to soon davidpdx Aug 2014 #30

"Occupied" Crimea. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #148

Yes you are right Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #150

How far back do you want to go? JackRiddler Aug 2014 #151

'Russian troops deployed' in Ukraine - Poroshenko Bosonic Aug 2014 #13

"The rebel successes constitute the opening of a new front in the conflict." Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #18

It's an invasion, for sure. Umm.....oops truth2power Aug 2014 #144

Semantic Subterfuge, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #146

Then that's what you should go with, magistrate. Absolutely. truth2power Aug 2014 #180

Always Nice To Start The Morning With A Laugh, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #193

Oh, no, Sir! You can't say 'imperialist.' Only the West is imperialist. Just a warning. freshwest Aug 2014 #245

Reuters seems to have a penchant for "translation mistakes" reorg Aug 2014 #166

I don't know what that has to do with anything - from back in July.. truth2power Aug 2014 #179

Yes, ancient history reorg Aug 2014 #182

On the chance anyone still wants to hear the other side of this story . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #17

I don't think that 6 otr 7 strident posters means that plenty of newthinking Aug 2014 #19

That is very good news . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #22

I'll be interested in seeing your response as Russia's intervention becomes more overt. Adrahil Aug 2014 #66

What was your response when the Kiev regime... JackRiddler Aug 2014 #138

I deplore it. I always deplore the uneccessary loss of life, especially civilians. Adrahil Aug 2014 #145

Certainly may happen. What does Russia have to loose since they are being tarred either way. newthinking Aug 2014 #154

The propaganda that's been served up by the US government and it's lackeys around the world truth2power Aug 2014 #160

Ok, thanks for you perspective. I very much disagree. Adrahil Aug 2014 #181

Daily Beast: "Russia Lies About Invading Ukraine as It Invades Ukraine" Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #149

Just like there are volunteer groups recruited and trained in Poland newthinking Aug 2014 #20

Russian 'volunteers' who just happen to be driving a Russian-army-only model of tank? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #21

There are reports those tanks came from the Ukrainian army itself . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #24

No, nothing there about the T-72BM model with Kontakt-5 armour muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #25

They have T-72 MP with reactive armor and even T-80 with it jakeXT Aug 2014 #28

But it came from RT, so it must be accurate. 7962 Aug 2014 #29

Insults always insults . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #33

When they don't have facts, they only have insults to fall back on. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #64

And when we do have facts, you seem to want to end the conversation. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #65

Ummm... some facts were posted. These are models of tanks ONLY THE RUSSIANS have. Adrahil Aug 2014 #107

Sorry, but trying to discern 'facts' from all the invective and propaganda flying VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #111

Your saying that there's no evidence of Russian involvement? IronGate Aug 2014 #112

Man, you are seriously in the tank for Putin.... Adrahil Aug 2014 #129

President Putin and Chinese Premier Li Ping are going to have to manage VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #137

Wow. IronGate Aug 2014 #139

Positing Russia as an Equal Partner With China, Sir, Is Particularly Humorous The Magistrate Aug 2014 #142

What is your source for that information? another_liberal Aug 2014 #186

His source was undoubtedly a Right Sector press release or a VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #196

No, go back and read #21 muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #200

is this another social media success? reorg Aug 2014 #211

Well, you spelled "oops" right. candelista Aug 2014 #230

we use it in German, too reorg Aug 2014 #231

You've got no room to criticize anyone on their source. IronGate Aug 2014 #210

Speaking of insults... truth2power Aug 2014 #163

It is a personal hatred of Russia on the part of some . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #185

Russian Persecution Of Gay People 'Insults Their Lifestyle', Fella? The Magistrate Aug 2014 #201

Some people want war, clearly . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #234

You, Sir, Made The Statement They Were Doing So; I Simply Quoted You The Magistrate Aug 2014 #235

That's only your interpretation of my reply . . . another_liberal Aug 2014 #236

Try That On Someone Who Does Not Speak English, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #237

Still excusing and defending Putin and his lackey's I see. IronGate Aug 2014 #39

Almost everything you post excusing Putin ends up being wrong. RT news? Please. 7962 Aug 2014 #27

Next time I take leave Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #31

Yes...Russian volunteers. OnlinePoker Aug 2014 #36

Those "volunteers" have access to Russian only model tanks too? EX500rider Aug 2014 #103

RT is "the other side of the story"? Hopefully these guys can find their way back to Moscow. "LOST" Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #133

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA tabasco Aug 2014 #155

another_liberal..You should know by now that rt is not considered a credible source, because truth2power Aug 2014 #183

Rights adviser to Putin says Russia "invading" Ukraine Bosonic Aug 2014 #32

Member of Putin's Human Rights Council: I consider this an invasion. pampango Aug 2014 #34

UN Security Council to hold emergency session on situation in Ukraine at 2pm ET Bosonic Aug 2014 #38

Ha-ha-ha. The UN Security Council proved its utter and complete VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #44

But you cheer Russia's war crimes and geek tragedy Aug 2014 #47

Why don't you learn a little bit about fascism before VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #54

Elections are a sham in fascist Russia. geek tragedy Aug 2014 #57

Sigh. You're hopeless. Buh-bye, now. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #58

As expected, IronGate Aug 2014 #60

...... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #62

Fits poster to a tee. nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #63

Every time. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2014 #134

Sounds like fascism to me. From wiki: pampango Aug 2014 #131

funny, every single one of those characteristics save the last applies equally to VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #135

None of which would possible without Russia's sizable conservative population. /nt Ash_F Aug 2014 #77

You know who also has a multiparty parliamentary system of government? Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #61

You sure have become one of the leading Russia/Putin cheeleaders here. IronGate Aug 2014 #53

Ukrainian forces (mostly National Guard with a few neo-Nazi VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #41

Outstanding post. ballyhoo Aug 2014 #43

Do you really think posting this rightwing geek tragedy Aug 2014 #45

Ha-ha-ha. "Putin is a fascist" - Best laugh of the morning. (Putin lost VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #49

Putin and his supporters are fascist geek tragedy Aug 2014 #51

LMAO. And Obama is a Communist from Kenya in your mindscape. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #55

No, we liberals know a bigoted fascist thug geek tragedy Aug 2014 #59

The ones shelling cities right? Cayenne Aug 2014 #214

War is hell. Which is why those who launch geek tragedy Aug 2014 #233

A rose is a rose, etc. Adrahil Aug 2014 #184

"Will not tolerate poitical dissent" but allows a large bloc of Communist MPs VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #190

Heheh... you're a funny guy. Adrahil Aug 2014 #194

Putin's approval rating: 88%. Obama's? Meh, not so much. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #195

That has nothing to do with anything. Adrahil Aug 2014 #197

It may not have anything to do with anything, but it certainly goes to the question of VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #198

No. I don't. Adrahil Aug 2014 #203

A brutal thug with an 88% domestic approval rating. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #204

Yup... What's your point? Are you trying to say he's a good guy because people like him in Russia? Adrahil Aug 2014 #205

Obama's approval rating is 39%, last time I checked. Means Putin is more VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #208

Plenty Of People Approve Of Brutality, Sir, And Of Dictatorship, For That Matter The Magistrate Aug 2014 #209

North Korea 4Q2u2 Aug 2014 #216

Um, Stalin defeated Hitler. That's a 'win' in anyone's book, save the neo-Nazi VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #217

Good lord man!!!! IronGate Aug 2014 #219

Yes, Stalin was a real swell guy. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #220

Typical Idol worship 4Q2u2 Aug 2014 #222

I can't believe anyone on any board would defend Stalin love. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #223

True Colors 4Q2u2 Aug 2014 #225

Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #224

Before or After 4Q2u2 Aug 2014 #226

Well, Zhukov most certainly wasn't 'put to death' and, in fact, maintained cordial relations VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #227

So seriously.....you're seriously praising Stalin now. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #228

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #229

Juror No. 7 for the win! nt Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #232

Conservatives love Rush Limbaugh. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #207

Here's an idea, IronGate Aug 2014 #212

Yeah, and a chunk of polonium just happened to fall into Alexander Litvinenko's soup NickB79 Sep 2014 #252

The US right now is the number one inverse fascist country on ballyhoo Aug 2014 #67

.... IronGate Aug 2014 #213

Actually, the Ukrainian government had the upper hand in the fight very recently. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #52

Or everything you said is assorted bunk and Putin was counting ballyhoo Aug 2014 #68

Pretty sure Putin doesn't care what I think. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #70

Those became defunct when ballyhoo Aug 2014 #71

What? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #72

What was the treaty? Did that treaty include the US ballyhoo Aug 2014 #73

Listen, I really appreciate your attempt to confuse me with 1L jargon and all. It's cute. However... Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #74

Your revision of the Budapest Memorandum nothwithstanding, the US's ballyhoo Aug 2014 #86

Putin had every right to annex Crimea to protect its interests. IronGate Aug 2014 #88

Why not Canada? Lot of 'ethnic English speakers' there. We must protect them from themselves. freshwest Aug 2014 #113

Hell, why not? IronGate Aug 2014 #114

It Is Clear You Understand Nothing About The Subject, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #89

That makes zero logical sense. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #98

Quick reminder: Russia invaded Ukraine with tanks; there's been no US military involvement muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #75

The Maidan was enough of an ballyhoo Aug 2014 #92

Can you tell the difference between a Ukrainian and an American? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #93

It was an invasion by Americans to change the government in Kieve. Nuland and her ballyhoo Aug 2014 #94

Good lord, IronGate Aug 2014 #95

Words Actually Mean Things, Whether In Common Parlance Or Law, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #96

So whenever anyone from another country visits a country, it constitutes an invasion? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #99

Visits? If they visit and disrupt the government ballyhoo Aug 2014 #101

Not Even The Definition You Provide, Sir, Matches Your Claim Of What The Word Means The Magistrate Aug 2014 #104

And Valerie Nuland with a bag of cookies constitutes an invading force? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #109

Absurd and desperate as more and more facts emerge IronGate Aug 2014 #110

Nuland's cookies are the real issue here, no doubt about it. Actual photo of them here: freshwest Aug 2014 #119

Pretty colored cookies. IronGate Aug 2014 #120

I acted upon that desire, myself. Those OREOs tasted great! freshwest Aug 2014 #156

The bag of cookies is a metaphor for ballyhoo Aug 2014 #121

HaHaHaHa. IronGate Aug 2014 #122

Which was.......what? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #123

Working for the Obama Administration, Victoria Nuland spent ballyhoo Aug 2014 #125

Yeah, that one was rated "Pants on Fire" by Politifact Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #126

It's common knowledge now and her leaked phone calls ballyhoo Aug 2014 #128

So a phone call is the proof of a US sponsored coup? Really? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2014 #130

What Is Common Knowledge, Sir, Is That Figure, As You Present It, Is Utterly Bogus The Magistrate Aug 2014 #136

Yes, I remember that... Thanks for posting it here. freshwest Aug 2014 #157

Links? Other than RT? nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #127

How did we miss planting an American flag there? We did with the Moon. Guess we ran out of flags. freshwest Aug 2014 #118

Well let's see: First the Orange "Revolution". Pres Yushenko's wife? American Neo-con newthinking Aug 2014 #162

Your Attempt To Explain International Law And Contract, Sir, Would Be Most Amusing.... The Magistrate Aug 2014 #76

Well, to some that was just a piece of paper, you know... freshwest Aug 2014 #124

Cover for Poroshenko.... Xolodno Aug 2014 #48

If it were a 'full-scale invasion,' Russian T-72s and T-80s would VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #50

And your slavering support for the RW fascist govt of Putin IronGate Aug 2014 #56

f-ng vatniks meMeMEEEE Aug 2014 #82

That's how I figure it too. There is a lot of ballyhoo Aug 2014 #69

There's alot of support for the RW fascist Putin and Russia's invasion of Ukraine IronGate Aug 2014 #79

Not just on this board either. nilesobek Aug 2014 #80

This is how WW3 will start. Does Pat Robertson know ballyhoo Aug 2014 #83

And Putin seems determined to start it with his invasion of Ukraine. nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #87

Definately a lot of that...haven't seen that stuff since... Xolodno Aug 2014 #85

Kutuzov would be proud. He was the master of disguise, causing ballyhoo Aug 2014 #91

"The people were very nice and everything was real organized." EX500rider Aug 2014 #106

Sigh. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #116

Ever been to Russia? nt. IronGate Aug 2014 #117

The people are nice yes, IronGate Aug 2014 #108

So would Zhukov. VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #115

One hopes, actually. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #141

Why don't you like Tymoshenko? She is so pretty and she looks ballyhoo Aug 2014 #143

‘Nuclear weapons’ should be used to kill Russians JackRiddler Aug 2014 #152

I was kidding, Jack. I can't stand the ballyhoo Aug 2014 #153

OSCE: "the Russian Federation is behind the violence" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #78

I Love The 'Russians Soldiers Are Fighting Here, But They're On Leave' Line, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #81

It's a line no-one here would believe for a moment if the USA ever tried to use it muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #84

so what was the line when Blackwater mercenaries were seen in Donetsk? reorg Aug 2014 #161

Clearing Out The 'Greatest Hits' File Does Not Help, Especially When It Is A Circular File, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #167

It was reported in the reliably anti-Putin German press reorg Aug 2014 #168

All You Are Doing Is Dredging Up Fish-Wrap, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #170

Blackwater and their successor names are mercenaries muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #173

I see. So, that's the line. reorg Aug 2014 #174

If you can't tell the difference between a government and a private company muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #175

I told you the difference n/t reorg Aug 2014 #176

No; you are pretending that Putin sending in columns of tanks to Ukraine is the equivalent muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #177

Well, following your example I might point out that these "columns" reorg Aug 2014 #191

Oh yes, of course "patriotic organisations" in Russia have squadrons of tanks lying around muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #199

Shock and awe over Ukraine? reorg Aug 2014 #202

Privatized the Military? IronGate Aug 2014 #215

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings reorg Aug 2014 #221

The 'boys' were lost, it's not their fault! Canada claims they are geographically challenged: freshwest Aug 2014 #158

More than 100 Russian soldiers killed in 1 battle - members of Russian human rights council muriel_volestrangler Aug 2014 #90

Well, I think their "uneasy" relationship with the Kremlin just got a TwilightGardener Aug 2014 #105

are these the same 100 Russian soldiers reorg Aug 2014 #164

Probably Not, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #165

if true, this information from second-hand hearsay reorg Aug 2014 #169

The 'Volunteer' Wheeze Is Very Old, Sir The Magistrate Aug 2014 #172

You're getting more desperate and absurd trying to justify and excuse IronGate Aug 2014 #218