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In reply to the discussion: Russian and Ukraine troops battle in south, prompting fears that invasion has begun [View all]newthinking
(3,982 posts)154. Certainly may happen. What does Russia have to loose since they are being tarred either way.
        Just a note: I have lived in Europe and been in Ukraine and in Russia. I have friends there and have always wished Ukraine to modernize and move toward Europe. So I am no blind Russia fan. I just know the people there and the countries and understand what really happened. I have been aware of our meddling since the "Orange Revolution", when I noticed that (former) President Yushenko was married to an American who worked in hard right "think tanks" , (you know, the kind we all hate here?). I have paid attention ever since..
Early 2000s I was approached by a Republican in Ukraine (Yes, the actual Republican Institute has been involved there for years) about work prospects with them (my acquaintance there did not know my politics were liberal). I was ignorant of what was going on there. But not after that.....
Russia is no ideal country, but this is all of our own making. We have embraced a foreign and economic policy of "end justifies the means" and have crossed many bounderies, created wars on lies, allied with really bad guys, taken down even democratic governments at a whim of our interest.
We are even now weakening the very important institutions of NGOs (The reason that Russia has restricted NGOs is because we were lying about what many were about and using them to spy and attempt to weaken the country. )
That is why now NGO's such as DRs without Borders are now in danger in many parts of the world. The terrible precident of immoral use of peacemaking and humanitarian institutions has been made into an art form and by doing this we weaken world peace. We should expect more from our government.
Russia is essentially the first country to put their hand up and say enough when our shadow institutions tried to compromise it.
It is a shame it was not a country a little more modernized that did this. But it eventually was going to happen.
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                        Russian and Ukraine troops battle in south, prompting fears that invasion has begun [View all]
							LloydS of New London
							Aug 2014
							OP
                        
        
        Funny thing is, Russia was pissed that NATO's influence got closer and closer to Russia's border.
        DetlefK
        Aug 2014
        #1
      
        
        Norway is NATO, though. Can't trust those bloodthirsty Vikings, you know. :)
        freshwest
        Aug 2014
        #244
      
        
        Ok which is it? Ukraine is *now* afraid that Russia has entered in? So they were lying before?
        newthinking
        Aug 2014
        #3
      
        
        Russian troops have been there all along.  The question is whether Russia will abandon pretense....
        Adrahil
        Aug 2014
        #37
      
        
        We may have actually *really* left the "proxy" war  stage and entered overt war
        newthinking
        Aug 2014
        #6
      
        
        So it's incompetence sending Russians with Russian documentation and no plan ? /nt
        jakeXT
        Aug 2014
        #16
      
        
        As you say, war isn't funny, but you made me chuckle nonetheless.  They "got lost again".
        Tarheel_Dem
        Aug 2014
        #132
      
        
        We've known it since "rebel" bodies were being sent to Russia for burial.  Or "home".
        7962
        Aug 2014
        #26
      
        
        "The rebel successes constitute the opening of a new front in the conflict."
        Duckhunter935
        Aug 2014
        #18
      
        
        Oh, no, Sir! You can't say 'imperialist.' Only the West is imperialist. Just a warning.
        freshwest
        Aug 2014
        #245
      
        
        On the chance anyone still wants to hear the other side of this story . . .
        another_liberal
        Aug 2014
        #17
      
        
        I'll be interested in seeing your response as Russia's intervention becomes more overt.
        Adrahil
        Aug 2014
        #66
      
        
        I deplore it.  I always deplore the uneccessary loss of life, especially civilians.
        Adrahil
        Aug 2014
        #145
      
        
        Certainly may happen. What does Russia have to loose since they are being tarred either way.
        newthinking
        Aug 2014
        #154
      
        
        The propaganda that's been served up by the US government and it's lackeys around the world
        truth2power
        Aug 2014
        #160
      
        
        Russian 'volunteers' who just happen to be driving a Russian-army-only model of tank?
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #21
      
        
        There are reports those tanks came from the Ukrainian army itself . . .
        another_liberal
        Aug 2014
        #24
      
        
        Ummm...  some facts were posted.  These are models of tanks ONLY THE RUSSIANS have.
        Adrahil
        Aug 2014
        #107
      
        
        Sorry, but trying to discern 'facts' from all the invective and propaganda flying
        VanGoghRocks
        Aug 2014
        #111
      
        
        Positing Russia as an Equal Partner With China, Sir, Is Particularly Humorous
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #142
      
        
        RT is "the other side of the story"?  Hopefully these guys can find their way back to Moscow. "LOST"
        Tarheel_Dem
        Aug 2014
        #133
      
        
        another_liberal..You should know by now that rt is not considered a credible source, because
        truth2power
        Aug 2014
        #183
      
        
        UN Security Council to hold emergency session on situation in Ukraine at 2pm ET
        Bosonic
        Aug 2014
        #38
      
        
        funny, every single one of those characteristics save the last applies equally to
        VanGoghRocks
        Aug 2014
        #135
      
        
        None of which would possible without Russia's sizable conservative population. /nt
        Ash_F
        Aug 2014
        #77
      
        
        You know who also has a multiparty parliamentary system of government? Ukraine.
        Tommy_Carcetti
        Aug 2014
        #61
      
        
        "Will not tolerate poitical dissent" but allows a large bloc of Communist MPs
        VanGoghRocks
        Aug 2014
        #190
      
        
        It may not have anything to do with anything, but it certainly goes to the question of
        VanGoghRocks
        Aug 2014
        #198
      
        
        Yup... What's your point?  Are you trying to say he's a good guy because people like him in Russia?
        Adrahil
        Aug 2014
        #205
      
        
        Plenty Of People Approve Of Brutality, Sir, And Of Dictatorship, For That Matter
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #209
      
        
        Um, Stalin defeated Hitler. That's a 'win' in anyone's book, save the neo-Nazi
        VanGoghRocks
        Aug 2014
        #217
      
        
        Well, Zhukov most certainly wasn't 'put to death' and, in fact, maintained cordial relations
        VanGoghRocks
        Aug 2014
        #227
      
        
        Yeah, and a chunk of polonium just happened to fall into Alexander Litvinenko's soup
        NickB79
        Sep 2014
        #252
      
        
        Actually, the Ukrainian government had the upper hand in the fight very recently.
        Tommy_Carcetti
        Aug 2014
        #52
      
        
        Listen, I really appreciate your attempt to confuse me with 1L jargon and all. It's cute. However...
        Tommy_Carcetti
        Aug 2014
        #74
      
        
        Why not Canada? Lot of 'ethnic English speakers' there. We must protect them from themselves.
        freshwest
        Aug 2014
        #113
      
        
        Quick reminder: Russia invaded Ukraine with tanks; there's been no US military involvement
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #75
      
        
        It was an invasion by Americans to change the government in Kieve. Nuland and her
        ballyhoo
        Aug 2014
        #94
      
        
        So whenever anyone from another country visits a country, it constitutes an invasion?
        Tommy_Carcetti
        Aug 2014
        #99
      
        
        Not Even The Definition You Provide, Sir, Matches Your Claim Of What The Word Means
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #104
      
        
        And Valerie Nuland with a bag of cookies constitutes an invading force?
        Tommy_Carcetti
        Aug 2014
        #109
      
        
        Nuland's cookies are the real issue here, no doubt about it. Actual photo of them here:
        freshwest
        Aug 2014
        #119
      
        
        What Is Common Knowledge, Sir, Is That Figure, As You Present It, Is Utterly Bogus
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #136
      
        
        How did we miss planting an American flag there? We did with the Moon. Guess we ran out of flags.
        freshwest
        Aug 2014
        #118
      
        
        Well let's see: First the Orange "Revolution". Pres Yushenko's wife? American Neo-con
        newthinking
        Aug 2014
        #162
      
        
        Your Attempt To Explain International Law And Contract, Sir, Would Be Most Amusing....
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #76
      
        
        There's alot of support for the RW fascist Putin and Russia's invasion of Ukraine
        IronGate
        Aug 2014
        #79
      
        
        I Love The 'Russians Soldiers Are Fighting Here, But They're On Leave' Line, Sir
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #81
      
        
        It's a line no-one here would believe for a moment if the USA ever tried to use it
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #84
      
        
        Clearing Out The 'Greatest Hits' File Does Not Help, Especially When It Is A Circular File, Sir
        The Magistrate
        Aug 2014
        #167
      
        
        If you can't tell the difference between a government and a private company
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #175
      
        
        No; you are pretending that Putin sending in columns of tanks to Ukraine is the equivalent
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #177
      
        
        Oh yes, of course "patriotic organisations" in Russia have squadrons of tanks lying around
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #199
      
        
        The 'boys' were lost, it's not their fault! Canada claims they are geographically challenged:
        freshwest
        Aug 2014
        #158
      
        
        More than 100 Russian soldiers killed in 1 battle - members of Russian human rights council
        muriel_volestrangler
        Aug 2014
        #90
      
        
        Well, I think their "uneasy" relationship with the Kremlin just got a
        TwilightGardener
        Aug 2014
        #105