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Barack Obama

In reply to the discussion: The DU double standard... [View all]
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
15. You appear to assume that a President and a Senator have equal political power.
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 04:01 PM
Jan 2014

Scenario One: President Obama proposes an ACA that, per his earlier promise, includes a robust public option.
Scenario Two: President Obama proposes the ACA as he actually proposed it, and Sanders offers an amendment to add a robust public option.

In your view, these two scenarios are fundamentally equivalent in terms of what might actually get passed. Therefore, faulting Obama for not doing the first requires one to fault Sanders for not doing the second.

For my part, I see those two scenarios as being very fundamentally different. What the President of the United States says and does has a huge impact on the political landscape. Whether a particular policy change can be passed is not a given, pre-existing fact; it's affected (not totally controlled but powerfully affected) by the President's choices. It's affected by an individual Senator's choices, too, but to a far lesser extent.

If Obama had proposed a health-insurance reform bill that included a public option, and then found the public option eliminated by a coalition of Republicans and conservative Democrats, there would have been much less basis to criticize him. At least he would have tried. He might have succeeded, by playing heavily on party loyalty. Even if he failed, taking a more progressive position would have helped to shape the public discourse. Those of us who criticize him from the left would be much less critical on this particular issue if he had handled it that way, even if the ACA as actually enacted had turned out to be exactly the same. In contrast, there was nothing Sanders could do that offered the slightest possibility of adding a public option, once Obama had proposed an ACA that excluded it.

I just picked the ACA as one example. There are plenty of others, notably appointments (Geithner and many other examples), where Obama made the effective choice and a progressive Senator, confronted with that reality, had no available course of action that would put a better person into the office.

Obviously there are cases (such as closing Guantanamo) where not even Obama's political power is sufficient to achieve a good result. There was a time when I was critical of Obama over Guantanamo, but when I learned more about the issue, I changed my mind. One could find some details where he might have done better. Overall, however, the blame on that issue lies with Congress. I don't blame Obama for his failure there because at least he tried. That illustrates my point that each political actor's conduct should be assessed according to the options that were open to him or her, given how other actors are deciding. It's not a double standard to judge different officials differently when the practicalities of the situation are that they had different options open to them.

The DU double standard... [View all] Drunken Irishman Jan 2014 OP
better than some it seems.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #1
I'm glad we have President Obama right now, DIrish! Cha Jan 2014 #2
+ about a million. Or so!!! BlueMTexpat Jan 2014 #3
Yes, so much to be grateful for, BlueMTexpat.. Cha Jan 2014 #5
Absolutely. BlueMTexpat Jan 2014 #6
You realize I'm gonna steal that altered slogan, don't you? IrishAyes Jan 2014 #19
It's worth Cha Jan 2014 #23
KICK and rec'd. BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #30
Bingo! ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #39
+10000 Tarheel_Dem Feb 2014 #51
I agree totally. The other side gives seminars on how to troll. IrishAyes Feb 2014 #64
My intoxicated countryman, that is the political fundamentalist double standard. wyldwolf Jan 2014 #4
+1 Jamaal510 Feb 2014 #25
+2. You're speaking truth to power, wyldwolf. eom BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #28
Once again JustAnotherGen Jan 2014 #7
Meh. People who spend too much time posting... TreasonousBastard Jan 2014 #8
They don't genuinely support Bernie or Elizabeth treestar Jan 2014 #9
+1 n/t jaysunb Jan 2014 #13
Bingo. IrishAyes Jan 2014 #20
Spot. ON. BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #29
Ughh.... wow... ughhh.... think Feb 2014 #31
Kick! sheshe2 Jan 2014 #10
No double standard. The President has enormous power to set the agenda. Jim Lane Jan 2014 #11
It is absolutely a double standard... Drunken Irishman Jan 2014 #14
You appear to assume that a President and a Senator have equal political power. Jim Lane Jan 2014 #15
I don't assume anything... Drunken Irishman Jan 2014 #16
Congress has equal political power treestar Feb 2014 #32
Thank you, treestar.. I just Cha Feb 2014 #70
Hi Cha! treestar Feb 2014 #71
You've apparently failed to understand the difference between a group and a forum. IrishAyes Jan 2014 #21
Question about BOG Jim Lane Jan 2014 #24
Sanders and Warren have to compromise even more treestar Feb 2014 #33
Why are you asking me what a quote from someone else means? Why not ask THAT person? IrishAyes Feb 2014 #34
OK, maybe I'll pursue my question (my actual question) some other day. Jim Lane Feb 2014 #35
Since you're determined to cause dissension, I'll do my best to see that post #35 IrishAyes Feb 2014 #36
My patience is not the best today, push off. Whisp Feb 2014 #37
According to the group's Statement of Purpose, this is "A safe haven for members struggle4progress Feb 2014 #38
In 2014 you can expect an uptick of goon squads. IrishAyes Feb 2014 #65
Thosee goon squads have been a constant feature of DU for years now struggle4progress Feb 2014 #66
They're determined to invade every corner of the world. Harder to get totally rid of IrishAyes Feb 2014 #69
Here's a novel concept ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #40
Even more embarassing is the double standard between Obama and FDR grantcart Jan 2014 #12
Ah yes.. "An alternative view from a “lackey butt-kissing shit” Cha Jan 2014 #17
Small minds are always horrified at bigger ones, aren't they? Poor little babes! IrishAyes Jan 2014 #22
It is a totally double standard. If President Obama walked on water, somebody'd be shouting, IrishAyes Jan 2014 #18
I'd keep laughing JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #27
Another DU double standard: Jamaal510 Feb 2014 #26
Another Double Standard ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #44
True dat. Jamaal510 Feb 2014 #49
I like the one where whatever Obama 'does' get accomplished Whisp Feb 2014 #72
K & R. n/t FSogol Feb 2014 #41
count me out. I rake President Obama over the coals when I believe he deserves it cali Feb 2014 #42
You will convince me that you are something other than a ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #45
I have said positive things about President Obama. cali Feb 2014 #46
Care to post a link ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #48
Classy response. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2014 #54
I can't read intonation, so ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #55
I meant that sincerely. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2014 #56
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #57
You're very welcome. greatauntoftriplets Feb 2014 #59
I have a friend who's black,,,I have a great gay friend,,,,I voted for Obama once upon a time.. Sheepshank Feb 2014 #50
Whatever cali.. you don't come in the BOG and throw an insult Cha Feb 2014 #52
"full blown OAS"! NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #53
"OAS" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #60
I've been suffering from chronic OAS for about ten years! NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #61
Don't worry ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #62
So's Cha Feb 2014 #67
But .... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #68
Take your rakes elsewhere, this is a protected group. Whisp Feb 2014 #58
I don't know how people can say Obama compromises with Republicans Rex Feb 2014 #43
They didn't even have to "compromise". OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #47
Could it also be that Bernie and Elizabeth both have very poor tans? IrishAyes Feb 2014 #63
Not only that, when we point this out, we're "tarnishing Warren and Sanders" stevenleser Feb 2014 #73
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