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Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
34. Its possible. Even i am not always right, i suppose.
Fri Sep 7, 2012, 07:35 PM
Sep 2012

Hard as that may be - for me, at least- to believe.

Im gonna take a look at what you wrote, though:

I didn't read anything in the post that advocated abstinence should be the focus of sex education, merely that those who wish to remain abstinent should be respected for their choice, rather than face ridicule for it. If anything, your reply seemed to imply that there is something wrong with someone who chooses to remain abstinent, and that they are likely to fuck up their lives by doing so. Not all people who choose to remain virgins beyond the average age do it for religious reasons....


One, absolutely people should be respected for WHATEVER choices they make, and not face ridicule. My reply had more to do with promoting abstinence until marriage as an ideal, as opposed to giving someone grief if that is what they choose to do. A subtle difference, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless. I do, absolutely, think that 'people should remain abstinent until marriage' is an unrealistic goal, and i think when many people attempt to live it, usually because that is what they have been told they *should* do, it leads to problems. I dont know the details of your personal situation, but i do know that if i had married the first person i had sex with, neither of us would have ended up very happy about it. That does not mean the sex itself was bad, or a bad idea.

I think there is a problem with groups looking down on one another for their choices. The Christian groups you mention definitely look down on those engaging in sex, and there are groups of, you might say, "the cool kids" who like to pick on those who either voluntarily or not do not have sex. (I can't help but think of the movie "Easy A" as I type this.) Fortunately there is a majority middle ground of kids who don't care or support others for their choices.


Maybe, I dont know. When I was in High School, Reagan was still President. While i have no doubt (and this applies to the facebook, etc comments too) that "things have changed", I cast a jaundiced eye towards hyerbole from us oldsters bout how "these kids today" yadda yadda yadda. "These kids today" have ALWAYS been like that.

I never saw the movie you mentioned, or heard of it.

HOWEVER, I will say that one thing you can't deny is that making the choice to have sexual activity at a young age is more likely to lead to problems, as opposed to the person who TRULY remains abstinent. By that I mean, not the boy or girl who wants to abstain until marriage, then "falls in love" and rushes into something like you suggested. If you remain truly abstinent, you aren't going to get pregnant or get someone else pregnant, for example. I get what the poster says about the nature of casual sex amongst certain teenagers, more so nowadays. They fuck, then run around bragging (sure that happened in the old days) post on their Facebook, then Twitter war about it. Then one hooks up with someone's friend, or ex to get revenge, yadda yadda....these are things that are NOT talked about in sex education, and should be....a healthy respect for one another once the deed is done. It's not the sex act itself that is dirty....sometimes it's all that surrounds it that is.


Here, i disagree with you. First, define "young age". The average age for loss of virginity in the US is about 16 for boys, 15 for girls. Which is just about the EXACT same as it was in my day, when I lost my virginity at age 16. Now that we are grown into parents, of course, we dont want to deal with the fact that reality is still the same as it ever was, ie teenagers do have sex. The problems you list, pregnancy, STDs, while related to the sex act of course, are mostly avoidable through sensible contraception and safe sex. At least, Highly statistically mitigated. This is not to say I would "encourage" teens to have sex. Unless teens have changed drastically from my day, they dont need the encouragement, to begin with, theyll do it anyway. I would tell young people that sex is serious, with heavy emotional as well as physical implications, and it is an important act that shoud be done with someone you care bout in a context of mutual respect.

That is NOT, of course, the same as saying "its better to wait until you are married". And it is simply absurd to even try to suggest that, as a general rule, it is better for people TO wait until they are married, which in the 21st century, is simply not realistic for most people. It wouldn't have been better for me, no way! I lost my virginity at 16. I was more than twice that old when I finally got married. On what planet would it have been "better if I had waited"?

...and was my wife a virgin when we married, or when we first got together? Hell, no. And that is a good thing, because we both had experience not just sexually, but in relationships- so we knew the drill, we knew some of the pitfalls, we knew what to expect.



*excuse the mispellings; on ipad

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Did you mean "use?" Or "lose?" Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #1
Yes I did and just fixed it. Thanks. nt Bonobo Mar 2012 #2
There's a guy in my office who taught his daughters that their vagina is called a "cookie" Papagoose Mar 2012 #3
Extremely creepy. Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #6
Cookie Monster must have terrified them! Fearless Mar 2012 #14
Property, property, property. bemildred Mar 2012 #4
From another devil's advocate playing perspective Broderick Mar 2012 #5
looking both historically and cross-culturally your explanation, really holds no water La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2012 #9
At one time, a woman's "virtue" was her only asset lumberjack_jeff Mar 2012 #10
It's the "purity ball" mentality Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #7
At the risk of upsetting most of the participants in this topic, regarding the issue of ... radicalliberal Sep 2012 #27
One, you lost me at "the exploitative nature of casual sex" Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #28
Forget it. radicalliberal Sep 2012 #30
If that's what you take away from what I wrote, you're wrong. Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #31
Sorry, Warren....but I think you overreacted there ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2012 #33
Its possible. Even i am not always right, i suppose. Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #34
I'll have more later.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2012 #35
I composed my post in the middle of the night when I should have been in bed. radicalliberal Sep 2012 #39
Then we agree on much. Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #40
There's no need to apologize. radicalliberal Sep 2012 #42
Everyone should be allowed the respect of self determination. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #43
"First, you don't know what boasting took place the next day in the [i]girls[/i] locker room, ..." radicalliberal Sep 2012 #44
Then welcome to oddball central. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #45
Describing sex outside of marriage as 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #29
Like I said, that post lost me at "the exploitative nature of casual sex" Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #32
Sometimes? 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #36
I think sex is something that can be enjoyed on a number of levels, sort of like Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #37
It illustrated the entire point of my OP perfectly. Bonobo Sep 2012 #38
Because americans are all about assets, property and value. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2012 #8
Jeff, I think this phenomena goes way beyond America or Capitalism or even Western Civilization. Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #11
Not to this degree. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2012 #12
That was kind of the same thing I was saying. Warren DeMontague Mar 2012 #13
No offense, but this is hardly just an "American" thing...It's in every patriarchal culture whathehell Apr 2012 #19
I think that this message to girls Tumbulu Mar 2012 #15
It was also to insure that men were not supporting another man's child.. whathehell May 2012 #21
because if she doesnt guard it Dokkie Apr 2012 #16
Just like Jack and Jill, mama told the sailor Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #17
+1 nt Bonobo Apr 2012 #18
Great question...As a female, I often wondered about that myself and yes, it is the cause of a whathehell Apr 2012 #20
Except, often, it is women who are acting as the self appointed monitors of sexual purity Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #22
For women who wish to use sex for personal gain 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #23
Maybe, although like I said my own suspicion is that it's operating on a deeper, programmed level Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #24
What ever it is, people seem to come by it naturally Major Nikon Sep 2012 #25
Sex with me is it's own reward. Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #26
... Major Nikon Sep 2012 #41
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