Men's Group

Let me cut right to the chase:

Rape is wrong. Rape apologia is wrong. No means no and frankly, any time anyone on this board has tried to argue, in this group at least, for an "extremely nuanced definition of consent" I have consistently said no, consent is and needs to be a bright, unequivocal, clear line.

Most men don't rape, and most men don't tolerate rapists. This imaginary cartoon dude in the locker room with the "bros before h**s"... I've never heard anyone talk like that, nor have I ever known anyone who THOUGHT like that.

And the "rape culture". Elsewhere in GD you hear rape blamed on Hollywood. On Culture. On all sorts of things, all sorts of nefarious programming and spooky cultural mojo, not to mention whatever it is about "masculinity-in-general" that is deeply in need of "change"..

So how about putting the blame for rape squarely where it belongs?

The Rapists?

Does me saying that mean my "feelings are hurt"? Do I have "sour grapes"? Do I not empathize with women who fear assault? No. No, and No. Although I realize that opening my yapper on this topic will, invariably, mean I will have that crap thrown at me. Predictably.


And what you don't hear, however, is word boo about why, in the context of these explanations, rape rates have declined significantly in the last 30 years, peaking in 1992 and now at about 75% of their 1980 level as reported per 100,000 of population.

Didn't take 1/3 of your GD thread before people started reflexively complaining about those numbers, because they screw with the preferred narrative of a culture in decline, of a media 'objectification' crisis, of porn causing rape.

Wait, I thought this was about rape, right? Not porn. Not about something else. Not about some other agenda. Right? Rape, which we all agree is wrong. Always.

Of course, that's what all the threads are about. That's why the topic was brought to GD in the first place, with fully predictable mass DU meltdown results.

Of course.

But I digress. See, these decline in rape rate numbers may be used by people who deflate the "porn causes rape" argument, but that doesn't mean there is no decline. So where do the actual numbers come from? The USDOJ, for one. They have a handy reporting tool. Here are the salient points for forcible rape rate numbers from 1980-2010, incidences per 100,000 persons.

The entire data table is in this post, I have not reproduced it because it takes up a lot of space.

and remdi95

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=5578

However, anyone who doubts the validity of those numbers is welcome to check them themselves with the DOJ reporting tool. (Please note it is the rate, not the actual numbers of incidents, which are at near the same level as they were in 1980. However, the population of the US in general has, in that time, increased significantly.)

So I ask. Are men already 'repairing'? Is the "rape culture" getting better? You talk of a "dire need to come up with something, and soon" ... I agree that violence is unacceptable, and we all should do everything we can to end it, in all its forms- but given that most men aren't violent, most men don't rape... this 'dire need'- is it based upon actual trends in actual reality, like the trend of violent crime in the US-- which is, also, declining?

Like the trend of violence worldwide.. declining?

"Dire need" would seem, to me, to indicate a problem which is getting worse. Like the ice caps melting. Not one that is, at least by credible statistical measurements, getting BETTER. Now, saying it's getting better doesn't mean it's NOT a problem that needs fixing. Doesn't mean it's not an UNACCEPTABLE problem. One is too many. But it should make us skeptical of narratives which try to offer spurious cultural explanations which seem to have little to do with the actual crime as it occurs in reality.

Or is rape, as I suspect, a violent crime which is committed by violent criminals who belong in prison, and of which one is still far too many, and one of which we ALL have a duty to speak out and draw clear lines around concepts like consent--- but which doesn't have anything to do with Hollywood, or some hypothetical "rape culture", or some problem Germaine to all "us men", most of whom already know we shouldn't rape people...

it is a crime, an inexcusable crime which should be called out, and vilified, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... but one for which the responsibility falls, and you're damn right I'm going to say it- on the perpetrators, not all men in general.

And to imply that somehow the vast majority of men are in dire need of 'repair' I think is a massive, and silly, generalization that might understandably be driven by other cultural ideas or agendas, but realisticaly has little to do with rape.