Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Men's Group

In reply to the discussion: Male Sexual Response [View all]

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
2. Before the predictable howls o' outrage ensue, I will say that anecdotally there is a lot of
Mon Feb 4, 2013, 04:17 AM
Feb 2013

evidence for a link between testosterone and a strong sex drive (duh) of a variety* not normally experienced by many women given their low but not nonexistent testosterone levels. This anecdotal evidence comes from FTM transsexuals who have related their experiences upon beginning testosterone therapy. I remember one article in the SF Weekly by a man, who had been a woman, relating how "all of a sudden I was noticing women all over the place- wanting to have sex with them, thinking about sex constantly", that sort of thing.

I want to add this about the whole "sex objects" thing, because I really think this terminology is unhelpful, unscientific, and at the end of the day, ridiculous. Because it purports, in most cases, to make a totally arbitrary distinction between sexual attraction to a person as-a-person, and a person as-a-(so called) "sex object". Well, look- I can't speak for anyone but me

(and I've already been told that NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU FIND ATTRACTIVE, BUDDY )

but, I am attracted- sexually attracted- to women. Female human beings. In fact, in my entire history of sexual attraction, I have ONLY been attracted to female human beings. That is my own orientation, of course I celebrate and accept the spectrum of orientations my brothers and sisters have as well. That said, I have never been attracted to, say, a shoe or a tree or a rock or a blender. I have never been sexually attracted to, what is commonly considered in the parlance, an object.

So; how is it that sexual attraction to a woman, because she's a woman, is "seeing her as an object"? If I saw her as an object, I wouldn't be attracted to her. It's because she's a woman, that's what's attractive, sexually.

It's fucking nonsense, and it's driven (as I've posted before) by a sociological agenda from people who want to categorize the way that many people -men and women- in our society feel attraction based on perhaps superficial physical characteristics, as somehow "bad" or "misprogrammed", some societal "problem" that needs to be "cured".

Are some people attracted, like I said, sexually to others on superficial basises? For sure. And do some people experience a failure or a deficit of empathy in their sexual interactions, as well as other social ones? Of course. The height, to my mind, of empathy and interpersonal connection is being able to as much as possible if not completely see oneself through the other person's eyes, and vice-versa, and it's no coincidence, to my mind, that some of the BEST sex comes with that level of connection. Of course.

But that does not mean that lower chakra, lusty, purely physical or superficial attraction is somehow "bad" or even "objectifying". It just is, it's what people often do, and it's natural.


* note I said "variety". This does NOT mean that testosterone is the only chemical driver of desire, or that women don't experience strong sexual desire as well.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Male Sexual Response [View all] Bonobo Feb 2013 OP
Well said. MrSlayer Feb 2013 #1
Before the predictable howls o' outrage ensue, I will say that anecdotally there is a lot of Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #2
"Objectifying" is reducing someone to an unthinking, unfeeling object. Dash87 Feb 2013 #13
And again, I think it's a made-up phenomenon dressed up as "science", that some people have decided Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #17
Objectification isn't a scientific concept. Dash87 Feb 2013 #19
It is presented as an allegedly scientific concept. And unless YOU are the one doing the Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #20
Interesting read Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #3
Not outrage, bemusement. Warren Stupidity Feb 2013 #4
Strawman prize. nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #5
exactly - the 'way to miss a point' prize leftyohiolib Feb 2013 #6
from the article leftyohiolib Feb 2013 #7
For me, the issue is how male behavior is "pathologized"... Bonobo Feb 2013 #8
i remember testoerone poisoning - i think alan alda was throwing that around in the 70's leftyohiolib Feb 2013 #9
Well, I refuse to believe there is anything abnormal or wrong with the average guy. Denninmi Feb 2013 #11
you and i are on the same page leftyohiolib Feb 2013 #31
What a horrible article. Dash87 Feb 2013 #10
It doesn't ignore it at all. It makes a POINT of it. nt Bonobo Feb 2013 #12
The point I got is more apologia. Dash87 Feb 2013 #14
I don't think painting it with the MRA title is fair but I can see the strategy. Bonobo Feb 2013 #15
Looks and quacks like a duck. Dash87 Feb 2013 #16
I agree that no one deserves a "prize" for being a decent human being. That aspect bugged me, too. Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #18
My opinion is about the blog. Nothing more. Dash87 Feb 2013 #21
Still, it's not helpful. In my experience some folks here think merely saying "MRA" is some sort of Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #22
I think the main element of virtuous masculinity is self control. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #23
There seem to be a lot of women who immediately pull the disgust card.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2013 #24
AFAIC, there's nothing wrong with the latter one, either. Lots of people -of both genders- like sex. Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #25
Just for the record, I'm not terribly impressed with this article. Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #26
Noted and I don't really disagree in general. Bonobo Feb 2013 #27
Like I said, anecdotally there seems to be a lot of stuff about the effect of testosterone, as Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #30
Agreed, but I think there are some valid points. Behind the Aegis Feb 2013 #28
That was my point, to the one who said "I don't want my 5 year old watching beyonce!" Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #29
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Men's Group»Male Sexual Response»Reply #2