Men's Group

some observations:
>>>And yet homophobia against lesbians seems to contradict this. >>>

Not to minimize the effects of anti-lesbianism in the culture (and it's destructive impact on individuals) but I think we can reasonably make some distinctions. There is a special, particularly pointed and aggressive variety of animus that abounds in the culture that is directed *specifically* toward gay males.

One can see it in the suicide stats. One doesn't hear much about young lesbians jumping off of bridges and hanging themselves. No, I don't have the stats handy and will be happy to be proven wrong but I think we can probably get general agreement that gay male adolescents are a *particularly* vulnerable psychological demographic in that respect.

One can see it and hear it in everyday interactions... particularly if one is around young people a lot. Here:
http://www.nohomophobes.com/#!/today/

Most teachers would back me up on this. There is greater latitude regarding homosexuality and bisexuality and gender non-conformity afforded to females than there is toward males. Multiple reasons for this not the least of which is that a lot of hetero men find lesbianism "interesting"; but not many straight women find male homosexuality interesting in the same way.( They don't know what they're missing. Tee-hee.)

Anyway .... apples and oranges. There is unquestionably hostility in the culture directed toward lesbians. But it ain't as sharp, serious, universal and lethal and I don't think it "means" the same thing. ( i.e. in terms of more general attitudes toward "male" and "female".)

>>>Even among homophobic men, there exists an attitude of respect, even reverence, for the feminine. How then can the feminine aspect manifested in men be the reason for homophobia? >>>>
I don't see a lot of evidence for this. Femininity is something straight males like to see in WOMEN. I'm not sure they "revere" it. They may be intrigued by it, but that's far from the same thing. In any case they don't , for the most part , want to see it in themselves... or in other persons of their gender. When they do see it in men it upsets their sense of order; perhaps reminding them uncomfortably that most of this stuff is societally imposed; i.e. a social fiction. But it remains an important part of how he ( the prototypical and hypothetical "straight man&quot sees himself.

>>>If one is inclined to win the argument at any costs, no matter how many logical pretzels one creates in the process, one could claim that it is the Patriarchy defending itself against any challengers. But that to me is the work of someone with an unalterably preconceived viewpoint that is determined to blame men for everything. >>>>

I'm sort of out of the loop on this aspect. Sounds a lot like 70's ( 2nd wave?) feminism... which I thought we had ( necessarily) passed through but now were on to more nuanced ( and productive) discussion of these things.