Men's Group

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)

41. The part about self esteem seems right to me.

Fri May 17, 2013, 04:14 PM

May 2013

I don't accept these three statements together.
Men tend to be masculine
Society defines masculinity
The consensus markers of masculinity are bad things

In fact, I only accept the first statement.

The first statement seems really simple and obvious, but my brain is making it really complex for some reason. Perhaps I am having a hard time with it because masculinity is so subjective that I think the statement can mean many different things.

The second statement is difficult for me because we have not agreed upon what masculinity actually is. In my view, masculinity is rhetorical, so it is defined by individuals, all conscious humans with a concept of masculinity, and by our language.

I believe "bad" comes from the observer, as opposed to the thing/situation being observed, so I also deny the third statement, but my reasons may be different than yours.

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What is masculinity? [View all] lumberjack_jeff May 2013 OP

simply galileoreloaded May 2013 #1

I answered this question in another thread: ZombieHorde May 2013 #2

I think if you're not creating that definition for yourself, you're missing the key point. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #5

What is the benefit of defining masculinity? nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #9

Self esteem. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #13

The part about self esteem seems right to me. ZombieHorde May 2013 #41

I think I'd agree that masculinity is mostly if not entirely subjective. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #42

Hmmmm. Okay, I've got #4, down. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #6

If racoons weren't up to no good they wouldn't feel the need to wear those masks. nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #10

Those things freak me out. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #14

The solution isn't to shoot them, but shoot *near* them. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #16

Good advice. ZombieHorde May 2013 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author radicalliberal Feb 2016 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author radicalliberal Jul 2016 #50

To me those should be adult characteristics noamnety May 2013 #3

"I guess I'm trying to contrast that with femininity, and what that list would look like." lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #4

which one of these traits are exclusively male? nt seabeyond May 2013 #7

Are the only valid feminine traits ones that zero men exhibit? lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #8

i am totally clueless about this whole femininity crap, too. i have ask for people to help me out seabeyond May 2013 #11

I think the same arguments hold true for women and femininity. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #15

would you really accept the definition of feminine to be nurturer. you, a father, seabeyond May 2013 #17

possibly becase you are more masculine than many women galileoreloaded May 2013 #20

nope. my ring finger is not longer than index. yes, i have a very pumped up seabeyond May 2013 #24

serum T is a very apt predictor of male aggression and masculine traits. galileoreloaded May 2013 #29

lol lol... ya. i gotcha. the monkey thing. those promoting the T the most are the ones that seabeyond May 2013 #30

what do they call people that shun science? galileoreloaded May 2013 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond May 2013 #33

I accept your definition of feminine that you apply to you as valid. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #21

ok. that is not MY definition. i do not have a definition. that is the issue. cause your seabeyond May 2013 #25

Nurture can take on different meanings to different people Major Nikon May 2013 #44

i can explain how femininity manifests galileoreloaded May 2013 #19

Without knowing more about the guy... lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #22

its rob zombie galileoreloaded May 2013 #28

The post to which I'm replying is almost three years old. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #47

wha??? i see nothing in that picture that lets me know how feminine nor how masculine. nada. seabeyond May 2013 #26

My view of feminity is the same as my view on masculinity. ZombieHorde May 2013 #23

i do too. and the older i get, the more sure i am. raising two boys and seeing how they seabeyond May 2013 #27

I also like this discussion and in no way meant to reject Lumber's thread. nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #31

I don't really disagree that any rhetorical definition is on shaky footing. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #34

That sounds wise to me. nt ZombieHorde May 2013 #35

but... i do need to say, i appreciate the thread and the effort you make in the defining. seabeyond May 2013 #12

I do not understand why masculinity or femininity MadrasT May 2013 #36

This is more the case, in my opinion, of reclaiming Bonobo May 2013 #37

I had a similar thought several hours later. MadrasT May 2013 #40

Funny, I say essentially the same thing Warren DeMontague May 2013 #38

Too complicated to define just like feminity. RiffRandell May 2013 #39

"Masculine" is one end of a continuum of which the other end is "Feminine" HuskiesHowls May 2013 #43

baby, don't hurt me. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #45

Masculinity is a who not a what. westerebus May 2013 #46

to be a man scubasteve76 Feb 2016 #49

it's... here2help Jul 2016 #51