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Men's Group

In reply to the discussion: The Mythopoetic Movement [View all]

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
12. I also don't actually think "the culture" is "ill"
Wed May 22, 2013, 03:01 PM
May 2013

I think there are fucked up attitudes, and certainly no small truckloads of stupidity on this planet, but what else is new? Despite much hand wringing about decline and decay and the inevitable falling of the sky, truth is things are better, getting better, looking better. Okay, atmospheric CO2 levels, not so much. But in terms of human, relational progress? Violence is down worldwide. Certainly the US is experiencing income disparity and the like, but globally the past few decades have seen the unprecedented emergence of a planetary middle class. Hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.

Socially, attitudes in this country are way better than they used to be. A whole generation has come of age that feel LGBT equality is a natural progression of fairness and human rights. 100 years ago lynchings were commonplace.

Things are getting better.

Still, we hear an awful lot of words like "our ill culture". Interestingly enough, a lot of folks over in the group you mention, are fond of exactly that same sort of hyperbole.

Going back to your prior post- do you feel that all m/f relationships are inherently 'transactional'? That's a fairly bleak outlook.

As for the male experience, I agree with the OP- I think there are some elements of initiation ritual or culturally encouraged personal development which are missing from the Leave it to beaver 1950s nuclear family school-college-job cookie cutter mold. But the fact is, in the past not very many generations, the human race has undergone MASSIVE change and dislocation in terms of how we work, how we live, etc. It is a testament to our innate flexibility that we have adapted and changed as well as we have. Of course our institutions or cultural practices haven't caught up.

But as I alluded to upthread, I think there ARE those sorts of experiences for those who go look for them, or make them themselves. And that will continue, and grow.

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The Mythopoetic Movement [View all] Bonobo May 2013 OP
Mostly agree. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #1
I agree with this fully. HuskiesHowls May 2013 #2
Great post. Bonobo May 2013 #3
It seems that all of life forms groups, of one kind or another. HuskiesHowls May 2013 #4
Our society is notably lacking these sorts of initiation rituals, which can be integral to deeper Warren DeMontague May 2013 #5
I'm not sure this esteemed male bonding was all it was cracked up to be... TreasonousBastard May 2013 #6
One thing at least seems clear to me. Bonobo May 2013 #7
I think we should have a scary initiation ritual for young men to join THIS group. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #8
completely disagree galileoreloaded May 2013 #9
That's an overly simplistic view of relationships- and people- I think. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #10
maybe. but both the men and women i have coached galileoreloaded May 2013 #11
I also don't actually think "the culture" is "ill" Warren DeMontague May 2013 #12
ALL relationships are transactional. galileoreloaded May 2013 #13
Apparently you believe that there is an idealized sort of fraternal relationship that is not. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #14
yes i am. and i have had to teach my son galileoreloaded May 2013 #15
I think you'e looking at some things through a particular lens that I don't have much use for. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #16
maybe. it usually take me an hour of coaching to break the male ego..... galileoreloaded May 2013 #17
I'll stick with Korzybski, Wilson, Garcia and Hunter. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #18
Understood. It's a bitter pill. Nt galileoreloaded May 2013 #19
Mmmmm, I'm not sure it is. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #20
I agree with you completely HuskiesHowls May 2013 #21
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