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progree

(11,463 posts)
28. I found something that's pretty good explanation of a conventional (non-plug-in) hybrid
Sun Sep 15, 2024, 12:26 AM
Sep 15

(and the last paragraph is about plug in ones)

What Is a Hybrid Car and How Do They Work?
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a26390899/what-is-hybrid-car/
What Is a Hybrid?
How Does Regenerative Braking Work?
Parallel Hybrids
Series Hybrids
Blurred Lines
How Hybrids Benefit You
Other Types of Hybrid

Everything in the below is my own words, unless its shown in quotes or by a gray excerpt box.

It's important to understand regenerative braking, since that's the main way a hybrid is fuel-efficient. When you press the brake pedal (not real hard, rather, like one normally does to slow down or slow to a stop), the cars wheels becomes attached to an electrical generator and start turning that generator. Turning that generator is hard as heck to turn because, well generating electricity is hard work (think of an ordinary bicycle's electric generator that you engage to connect to the bike's wheel that feed's the bike's light -- its a lot of work to light that light! (I suppose most bikes these days, as in the past, use a couple of D battery cells instead to power the lights).

Or in the mini-museum that was in the Mpls Central Library years ago, there was something like an exercise bike that one pedalled to light an ordinary 60 watt bulb, and it really took a lot of pedalling effort to make that light glow strongly and stay lit.

Well, back to our hybrid, that effort coming from the car's wheels that is generating the electricity to feed the battery is a lot of effort and that slows the cars' wheels down (and the car slows down of course). And the battery is charged some. Its a small battery in a hybrid (the article says about 1 kwh), but nevertheless its a useful amount of energy that is being captured and stored by the battery. And that battery energy is then used to get the car going again.

And that gives the hybrid a big efficiency advantage over an ICE car (traditional Internal Combustion Engine car), where all braking is done by squeezing brakepads against the wheel's rotor and all that energy is lost by heating up the brake pads and the surrounding air. Whereas the hybrid utilizes that energy by charging up the little battery, rather than totally wasting it like an ICE car does.

Next, lets skip to the Series Hybrids topic which is conceptually the simplest. The generator and battery and electric motor move the wheels at all speeds. The internal combustion engine never engages directly with the cars wheels, rather, it always engages with the generator to turn it to generate electricity which in turn powers the electric motor to turn the wheels. IOW, all the force (torque) to turn the wheels comes from the electric motor supplied by the electric generator and battery.

the article says, "Series Hybrids - This type is less common, but popularity is increasing."

Now scrolling up to "Parallel Hybrids" which is the most common but is more complicated. When the car starts moving, the battery-generator powers the electric motor to turn the wheels, just like described above. As it speeds up, or the little battery becomes exhausted, the internal combustion engine engages directly with the wheels (well to the transmission system that then turns the axle really, but I'll just shorthand it to say the engine is turning the wheels) to turn them. So now we're in plain ordinary ICE car mode - a gasoline engine turning the wheels.

Parallel Hybrids - This is the most common type, as they are set up to use the selectively use the gasoline engine or the electric motor to drive the car. They can also engage both at once. The electric motor gets the nod at lower speeds because that's when their high initial torque and efficiency can make best use of the limited battery energy. After a delayed restart, the gasoline engine joins in and eventually takes over as speed climbs and settles into a cruise, at which point the engine is in its sweet spot.


Now excerpting from the first topic, "What is a hybrid?"

With no external power source, electricity for the motor is scavenged under braking in a process called regenerative braking—regen for short. ... . The regen system does not replace the traditional brakes but instead works as a crucial alternative. Electrical energy collected via this process is saved in the battery for immediate reuse the next time you accelerate. When you leave a stoplight, the saved energy gets the car going again and delays the restart of the gasoline engine—in some cases until you reach 25 mph. When you stop again, the cycle repeats. This makes a hybrid's city fuel economy much higher than a nonhybrid's, not to mention its own highway economy.


So the interesting part is that the regular internal combustion engine is frequently starting and stopping and starting and stopping again and again during city driving.

I don't understand the very last part of the excerpt where it says "This makes a hybrid's city fuel economy much higher than a nonhybrid's, not to mention its own highway economy.

The bold part (I did the bolding), befuddles me. As I understand it, on the highway, one is almost always in internal combustion engine mode. In the parallel hybrid, the ICE engine is directly turning the wheels, just like in a conventional ICE car, so I don't know how it can be more efficient than a conventional ICE car (particularly with the added weight of a dual motor system plus the 1 Kwh battery in the hybrid's case).

Well, I suppose, in highway driving, we're often doing a little very gentle braking now and then to adjust our speed downward a bit at times, so the hybrid's regen system captures that and uses it (rather than wasting it like an ICE car).

In the series hybrid, in highway driving, the ICE engine is constantly turning the generator that feeds the battery and electric motor to turn the wheels. It would seem to me that this is not particularly efficient -- some of the energy from the ICE engine is lost in converting to electricity and then from electricity to the electric motor to the wheel -- whereas in an ICE car it's direct from the ICE engine to the wheel (by way of the transmission system etc. as always).

And, ta-dah, plug-in hybrids

Plug-in hybrids are simply regular hybrids with greatly enlarged batteries designed to give them full speed operation on electricity alone for 20 to 50 miles. All the issues with charging an EV battery come to roost here, but they're not as acute because a plug-in hybrid's battery is about a quarter the size of an EV's. That makes them easier to plug in at home, and those that can manage this will have a part-time EV with no leash: a weekday EV commuter, but with full gasoline capability for long trips. And they're still efficient when running on gasoline because they retain the advantages of regular hybrids. Negatives include higher purchase cost because of the bigger battery, a greater likelihood that the larger battery will intrude on cargo space, and a possibly smaller gas tank.
I'm looking into buying a Toyota hybrid iemanja Sep 13 #1
Plug-in Hybrids - about 8 to 12 hours for a fully charge using ordinary 120 V circuit progree Sep 14 #11
It seems complicated iemanja Sep 14 #14
I test drove 2 Rav 4 hybrids today and I fell in love. 1WorldHope Sep 13 #2
I've been thinking about the Corolla Cross hybrid because it's smaller iemanja Sep 14 #15
I messed up my front end on my impreza subaru the first day i drove it. 1WorldHope Sep 14 #17
The first day iemanja Sep 14 #18
I was, but I never bothered fixing it because I kept doing it. 1WorldHope Sep 14 #25
Conventional hybrids get ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of their energy from gasoline (or diesel), so anyone progree Sep 13 #3
Those are the facts, yes. But the goal right now is for everyone reduce their carbon foot print. PortTack Sep 14 #5
I switched to EVs over a decade ago. NEVER going back. tinrobot Sep 14 #9
Happy that you like your EV. Here in the MW, cities like Chicago EV charging during cold weather can be an absolute PortTack Sep 14 #13
Ice cold Norway just passed 90% of new car sales as EVs. tinrobot Sep 14 #16
The average Norwegian drives 7600 miles per year NickB79 Sep 14 #20
Not really. 14K miles per year is only about 40 miles per day. tinrobot Sep 14 #27
This OP was about a stock Prius and a guy who got amazing mileage from it....NOT about EVs and your PortTack Sep 15 #29
I responded to the post immediately above me. tinrobot Sep 15 #39
Your chargers are burning natural gas and coal, but of course you didn't respond to that! PortTack Sep 16 #41
Don't forget, your toaster and TV set are also burning gas and coal. tinrobot Sep 16 #42
Are they no better than regular gasoline engines? iemanja Sep 14 #19
After I thought about it, but haven't verified: on Plug-in Hybrids -- progree Sep 14 #21
I'm talking about the difference between a combustible engine and a non-plug in hybrid iemanja Sep 14 #22
Oh, a conventional hybrid is definitely better than an ICE car as far as fuel efficiency and emissions progree Sep 14 #23
Okay, thanks. nt iemanja Sep 14 #24
Your welcome. Thanks for the questions. Good luck with your purchase 😊 /nt progree Sep 14 #26
I found something that's pretty good explanation of a conventional (non-plug-in) hybrid progree Sep 15 #28
What kind of hybrid is this? iemanja Sep 15 #34
I don't know - I'm not having any luck with your link progree Sep 15 #35
Is this better iemanja Sep 15 #36
Definitely a conventional (not plug-in) hybrid progree Sep 15 #37
Right, I knew that iemanja Sep 15 #38
One can pretend that electricity ISN'T generated overwhelmingly by fossil fuels at a huge thermodynamic penalty... NNadir Sep 15 #32
I'm well aware that the U.S. grid, on average, is 60% fossil fuel. What I'm saying is that progree Sep 15 #33
It is technically straight forward, although popularly not recognized or embraced to make ICE's nearly carbon neutral. NNadir Sep 15 #40
God, please don't get me stuck behind a hypermiler. NBachers Sep 14 #4
I've had two Prius...they are really great cars and I definitely have reduced my carbon foot print PortTack Sep 14 #6
I'm on my 2nd Prius chowmama Sep 14 #7
It's great that he did it, but the last part is basically a Toyota ad that slams EVs tinrobot Sep 14 #8
I've got a European spec Yaris Cross hybrid. shotten99 Sep 14 #10
It's not just the mileage that counts. My 12+ y/o Prius has had to have only Wonder Why Sep 14 #12
I'm saving my 12 yr old Prius for my daughter NickB79 Sep 15 #30
Mine goes to grandson in 2 years when he turns 16. Wonder Why Sep 15 #31
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