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progree

(11,463 posts)
33. I'm well aware that the U.S. grid, on average, is 60% fossil fuel. What I'm saying is that
Sun Sep 15, 2024, 11:27 AM
Sep 15

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2024, 12:52 PM - Edit history (4)

that's better than 100% fossil fuel, as in the case of a hybrid or conventional ICE car. Something that promoters and owners of either might very well contemplate before they accuse others of being "fossil fuel salesmen". Sigh.

And there is some progress, and plans to reduce the grid's carbon intensity, but I'm not aware of any to reduce the carbon intensity of the gasoline that fuels conventional hybrids and ICE cars. I know that you don't think much of plans, given the "by 2030, by 2050" etc. and I can understand that. But nobody has plans for making gasoline net zero carbon that I know of




From: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143289137#post3

Edited to add: I'm aware that the increase in projected electricity consumption due to data centers and crypto-mining, and yes, electric vehicles and electric furnaces and water heaters etc. is likely going to end this small slow progress in reducing carbon emissions from the U.S. electricity sector, although I expect the CO2e/KWH will continue to improve /End Edit

More nuclear energy on the grid, will of course reduce the carbon intensity of the grid. But so far I'm not seeing it reducing the carbon intensity of hybrid and ICE car fuel that the fossil-fuel salespeople sell.

And I certainly don't think that any kind of car is "green". Or any source of power either.

I'm always impressed by your graphic of solar, wind, hydro resource utilization

Materials needed for different forms of power generation. Figure based on data from U.S. Department of Energy Quadrennial Energy Review 2015.



taken from this, that uses some of your other work:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219407847#post4

I'm not an "anti-nuke", by the way. Nor am I a "not-an-anti-nuke anti-nuke" either as you have characterized some others in past posts (or words to that effect). I was an electrical engineer in the nuclear Navy in the 1970's. And I'm impressed by your mortality posts of radiation deaths vs. air pollution deaths.

Edited to add I did look at your first link





I see that even if we managed to get electricity production greenhouse gas emissions down near zero, something that is decades off at best (or a hypothetical minimum case ), the various EV's are only marginally better than the ICEV and HEV (conventional ICE gasoline car and the conventional (i.e. non-plug-in) hybrid. Interesting.

Edited to add I wonder what the Dept of Energy's perspective is. Do they refute this? Have other data? Are bureaucrats in service of politicians? /End Edit

Myself I haven't had a car for 5 years, and manage with a lot of walking (need the exercise anyway), and occasional bus ride.

Another late late edit If I do get a car, it probably will be a conventional ICE, given that I would drive less than 2,000 miles a year, probably more like 1,000 miles. That would be greener (and cheaper) than the other options, since the various electric vehicles (and the conventional hybrid) have higher factory emissions (making the car and the batteries). I don't see in the graphic what they assume as far as annual miles driven, so that i can do some extrapolation to lower mileages of the gasoline production + vehicle use to match my situation.
I'm looking into buying a Toyota hybrid iemanja Sep 13 #1
Plug-in Hybrids - about 8 to 12 hours for a fully charge using ordinary 120 V circuit progree Sep 14 #11
It seems complicated iemanja Sep 14 #14
I test drove 2 Rav 4 hybrids today and I fell in love. 1WorldHope Sep 13 #2
I've been thinking about the Corolla Cross hybrid because it's smaller iemanja Sep 14 #15
I messed up my front end on my impreza subaru the first day i drove it. 1WorldHope Sep 14 #17
The first day iemanja Sep 14 #18
I was, but I never bothered fixing it because I kept doing it. 1WorldHope Sep 14 #25
Conventional hybrids get ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of their energy from gasoline (or diesel), so anyone progree Sep 13 #3
Those are the facts, yes. But the goal right now is for everyone reduce their carbon foot print. PortTack Sep 14 #5
I switched to EVs over a decade ago. NEVER going back. tinrobot Sep 14 #9
Happy that you like your EV. Here in the MW, cities like Chicago EV charging during cold weather can be an absolute PortTack Sep 14 #13
Ice cold Norway just passed 90% of new car sales as EVs. tinrobot Sep 14 #16
The average Norwegian drives 7600 miles per year NickB79 Sep 14 #20
Not really. 14K miles per year is only about 40 miles per day. tinrobot Sep 14 #27
This OP was about a stock Prius and a guy who got amazing mileage from it....NOT about EVs and your PortTack Sep 15 #29
I responded to the post immediately above me. tinrobot Sep 15 #39
Your chargers are burning natural gas and coal, but of course you didn't respond to that! PortTack Sep 16 #41
Don't forget, your toaster and TV set are also burning gas and coal. tinrobot Sep 16 #42
Are they no better than regular gasoline engines? iemanja Sep 14 #19
After I thought about it, but haven't verified: on Plug-in Hybrids -- progree Sep 14 #21
I'm talking about the difference between a combustible engine and a non-plug in hybrid iemanja Sep 14 #22
Oh, a conventional hybrid is definitely better than an ICE car as far as fuel efficiency and emissions progree Sep 14 #23
Okay, thanks. nt iemanja Sep 14 #24
Your welcome. Thanks for the questions. Good luck with your purchase 😊 /nt progree Sep 14 #26
I found something that's pretty good explanation of a conventional (non-plug-in) hybrid progree Sep 15 #28
What kind of hybrid is this? iemanja Sep 15 #34
I don't know - I'm not having any luck with your link progree Sep 15 #35
Is this better iemanja Sep 15 #36
Definitely a conventional (not plug-in) hybrid progree Sep 15 #37
Right, I knew that iemanja Sep 15 #38
One can pretend that electricity ISN'T generated overwhelmingly by fossil fuels at a huge thermodynamic penalty... NNadir Sep 15 #32
I'm well aware that the U.S. grid, on average, is 60% fossil fuel. What I'm saying is that progree Sep 15 #33
It is technically straight forward, although popularly not recognized or embraced to make ICE's nearly carbon neutral. NNadir Sep 15 #40
God, please don't get me stuck behind a hypermiler. NBachers Sep 14 #4
I've had two Prius...they are really great cars and I definitely have reduced my carbon foot print PortTack Sep 14 #6
I'm on my 2nd Prius chowmama Sep 14 #7
It's great that he did it, but the last part is basically a Toyota ad that slams EVs tinrobot Sep 14 #8
I've got a European spec Yaris Cross hybrid. shotten99 Sep 14 #10
It's not just the mileage that counts. My 12+ y/o Prius has had to have only Wonder Why Sep 14 #12
I'm saving my 12 yr old Prius for my daughter NickB79 Sep 15 #30
Mine goes to grandson in 2 years when he turns 16. Wonder Why Sep 15 #31
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