Israel/Palestine

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)

58. I firmly believe that bringing up historical anecdotes in a contemporary political context is a

Thu Jun 2, 2016, 08:57 PM

Jun 2016

smear against the people represented by that anecdote. As a counter-example, Livingstone, a (former) English Labour MP recently brought up Jewish collaboration with the Nazis when defending criticism of Israel - which would be a clear example of an anti-Semitic argument. The way I understand your argumentation, you seem to think that what Netanyahu did nothing wrong, but what Livingstone did was wrong. I think both were wrong, and that's where we seem to differ.

MP Naz Shah suspended from Labour (Apr 27, 2016)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134127592

Labour anti-Semitism scandal deepens: Ken Livingstone now claims Hitler was a Zionist (Apr 28, 2016)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141430901

In spiraling anti-Semitism row, Labour suspends Livingstone for saying Hitler backed Zionism
Source: Times of Israel, April 28, 2016
(snip)

Relating to Shah’s Facebook post calling for Israel to be “relocated” to America, Livingstone brought Hitler into the conversation, saying: “Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.”

Defending Shah, Livingstone said: “She’s a deep critic of Israel and its policies. Her remarks were over the top but she’s not anti-Semitic. I’ve been in the Labour Party for 47 years; I’ve never heard anyone say anything anti-Semitic. I’ve heard a lot of criticism of the State of Israel and its abuse of Palestinians but I’ve never heard anyone say anything anti-Semitic.It’s completely over the top but it’s not anti-Semitic.”

Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-spiraling-anti-semitism-row-labour-suspends-livingstone-for-saying-hitler-backed-zionism/

Note: My linking to the DU threads above is intended to show the equivalency between the argumentation of Netanyahu and Livingstone, that is, these historical anecdotes are used to smear people in a contemporary context.

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Thirty one countries adopt working definition of antisemitism [View all] shira May 2016 OP

Here it is.... shira May 2016 #1

millions of Semites are not Jews OR Israelites. anti-semite can be applied to persons who are msongs May 2016 #4

Again with this bullshit... Anti-semitism by definition is hatred of Jews. Any definition. shira May 2016 #5

You're wrong, but to make you happy aranthus May 2016 #6

Calling it what it is, Jew hatred, works for me. n/t shira May 2016 #7

It's ironic. aranthus May 2016 #8

The 31 countries... shira May 2016 #2

And Permanent International Partners who are adopting this... shira May 2016 #3

Now there is a definition of what Anti-Semitism is which is fine Tony_FLADEM May 2016 #9

According to traditional Jewish Law aranthus May 2016 #10

I'm apparently an anti-Semite according to at least 8 of the IHRA criteria. Little Tich May 2016 #11

All western liberal democracies adopted the definition. shira May 2016 #12

I'm not so sure that the same countries that ditched the EU working definition of anti-Semitism Little Tich May 2016 #14

Well, they did adopt the definition. Google it, then deal with it... shira May 2016 #15

Do you have have any proof for your claims? Little Tich Jun 2016 #19

I don't make claims when I lack proof... shira Jun 2016 #22

Do you have have any proof for your claims? n/t Little Tich Jun 2016 #31

Just gave it to you. I'm not responsible for your denial. n/t shira Jun 2016 #32

Obama Administration Anti-Semitism Czar Defines Anti-Zionism As Jew Hatred shira Jun 2016 #23

From March: US says Europe needs 'working definition' of Antisemitism shira May 2016 #17

I'm not really sure who's downplaying the bombing of a synagogue as mere anti-Israel criticism. Little Tich Jun 2016 #30

You proved the point. Firebombing a synagogue in Sweden is not anti-Israel. shira Jun 2016 #33

Oops, I think you misunderstand me - the bombing of a synagogue in Germany was an anti-Semitic act. Little Tich Jun 2016 #36

But you refused to acknowledge that in our discussion on Atzmon last July. shira Jun 2016 #37

I'm not sure what you refer to. Little Tich Jun 2016 #40

I bumped that thread and replied to one of your last posts... shira Jun 2016 #42

I think that most of us here have already figured that out. Fozzledick May 2016 #13

Jewish trolls are now being accused of pulling fast one w/ this working definition... shira May 2016 #16

the Jews, gays, women, POCs, etc always get blamed for peope hating them dlwickham Jun 2016 #51

I suspect you don't give a rat's arse about the very real dangers of extending the definition of Little Tich Jun 2016 #18

You seem to think we can't see what you're doing. Fozzledick Jun 2016 #20

I'll stick to the old definition that anti-Semitism means Jew-hatred. Little Tich Jun 2016 #21

That old definition blinded you into thinking Gilad Atzmon's criticism was legit. shira Jun 2016 #24

Interestingly, I consider Atzmon to be an anti-Semite, Little Tich Jun 2016 #29

But not because of anything Atzmon wrote or said which is clear hate towards Jews. shira Jun 2016 #34

For me it's pretty clear that Atzmon is referring to the idea that burning a synagogue is considered Little Tich Jun 2016 #41

"I'm not going to say whether it is right or not to burn down a synagogue... shira Jun 2016 #43

Even more Atzmon - Holocaust Denial - that didn't faze you according to your warped definition.... shira Jun 2016 #25

Your subjective old definition of Jew hatred led to you defending Mahmoud Abbas.... shira Jun 2016 #26

"Unlike Netanyahu, Abbas has understood the truth about the Holocaust, and the horrible accusation Little Tich Jun 2016 #28

What truth does Abbas understand? All he said was that the Shoah was horrible.... shira Jun 2016 #35

Mahmoud Abbas Shifts on Holocaust Little Tich Jun 2016 #38

And yet Abbas still maintains Jews colluded with Nazis & are responsible.... shira Jun 2016 #39

Softball question: Is Abbas an antisemite in your view? shira Jun 2016 #44

That's a good question - and I've got no answer to it. n/t Little Tich Jun 2016 #45

That's why a working definition of antisemitism is needed. shira Jun 2016 #46

The thing is that I consider anti-Semitism to be a form of racism. Little Tich Jun 2016 #47

You say I want to include things that aren't racist.... shira Jun 2016 #48

Basically every item on the IHRA list includes things that aren't racist. Little Tich Jun 2016 #49

That's ridiculous. shira Jun 2016 #50

Netanyahu: Hitler Didn't Want to Exterminate the Jews Little Tich Jun 2016 #53

No one made the accusation that calling out Netanyahu for this is antisemitic. shira Jun 2016 #54

Great example of a double-standard. You took Bibi's claim against the Mufti..... shira Jun 2016 #55

I firmly believe that bringing up historical anecdotes in a contemporary political context is a Little Tich Jun 2016 #58

But the Mufti is not the people. You make it seem like any criticism of the Mufti... shira Jun 2016 #60

Bibi a Revisionist and Hitler apologist? What a shameful crock. aranthus Jun 2016 #56

I would say that Netanyahu's attempt to shift the blame for the Holocaust from the Nazis to someone Little Tich Jun 2016 #57

Except that isn't what Bibi was doing aranthus Jun 2016 #59

The next day after the Mufti/Hitler meeting, Heydrich sent out invites to Wannsee.... shira Jun 2016 #62

Keep digging... Netanyahu's arguments don't get more appealing by you proving that he's using Little Tich Jun 2016 #63

Unsubstantiated sources? I just presented facts in that last post you don't like.... shira Jun 2016 #64

Bibi made himself clear days later, that the Nazis were fully responsible... shira Jun 2016 #61

Netanyahu retracted his statements - just like Livingstone did. Little Tich Jun 2016 #65

Interesting. You gave Abbas the benefit of the doubt w/ his Holocaust Denial.... shira Jun 2016 #66

4 articles written by notorious anti-zionist BDS-holes condemning Atzmon's Jew Hate.... shira Jun 2016 #27

Are these anti-zionist BDS'ers who call out Atzmon "pro-Israel trolls"? shira Jun 2016 #52