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aranthus

(3,386 posts)
33. False recap.
Mon Oct 10, 2016, 12:32 AM
Oct 2016

You have misrepresented both of our positions. Here's the real argument.

A. Everyone has the right to live anywhere they want in any and all parts of wherever they claim as their ancestral homeland. The cultural nature of the society that would result doesn't matter because no group has the right to express their national identity through the state because that would discriminate against the minority.

B. Every people has the right to a homeland where they can express their national identity through their state. That may sometimes mean that disputed territory has to be split between different groups, and that some people may not be able to return to or live in areas that they claim as theirs. This is because it is more important that each nation have its own place than that individual people or groups have access to every place that they claim is theirs.

One of the primary differences between us is that you reject the importance of national identity, and the right of national self determination. In fact, you falsely ascribe that to racism. Part of the reason for that is that you seem to conflate national and civil rights. The majority has the right to define what the national community is. What language is the common tongue. What history is celebrated as national history. What customs predominate in business and personal affairs. What you call racism is in fact how everyone else lives. that's what states are for. They exist to defend a way of life. So the cultural demographic make up of a state matters very much. That isn't racism. In fact, it has nothing to do with race. It's about ideas, beliefs, and values. That is what matters, because that is how people live. It is how societies are created and survive. You claim that destroying Israel means only the physical destruction of the state, but that is false. A state is primarily a cultural artifact. Radically change the culture and you have destroyed the state. Change Israel from a Jewish state into an Arab state (which is what RoR and BDS are all about) and you have destroyed Israel as a cultural artifact, even if it still exists as a physical one.

But but but they have justice in their name 6chars Oct 2016 #1
I think that Canary Mission is a hate site, and that you should avoid promoting it. Little Tich Oct 2016 #2
CUNY confirms SJP anti-Semitism, but declines to ban group shira Oct 2016 #3
One may wonder why you chose to bolster your arguments with an article from a pro-Republican site. Little Tich Oct 2016 #6
Can't condemn SJP racists? Here's CUNY's anti-semitism report... shira Oct 2016 #8
I think you're misreading the CUNY report on the alleged SJP anti-Semitism. Little Tich Oct 2016 #10
SJP wants to bring down the state of Israel & end it. That's antisemitic... shira Oct 2016 #19
Let me see if I get this. aranthus Oct 2016 #4
Here's some more info about the Canary Mission: Little Tich Oct 2016 #5
So you don't have an answer to my challenge. I thought as much. aranthus Oct 2016 #7
Slander is considered protected speech, which makes it possible for a certain Presidential Pretender Little Tich Oct 2016 #12
Just wrong aranthus Oct 2016 #13
I'm not really part of Team Palestine. Little Tich Oct 2016 #16
Still waiting for evidence Canary Mission is printing lies, misinformation... shira Oct 2016 #18
"....where you stand on civil rights & democracy". I call BS.... shira Oct 2016 #22
It's a bit of a stretch to call Israel a secular state already, but that's beside the point... Little Tich Oct 2016 #24
Israel is as liberal, democratic & secular as any other nation... shira Oct 2016 #25
When you actually find something wrong with Canary Mission, let us know... shira Oct 2016 #9
I suppose that the irony of you posting in favor of the notion of free speech in one post (#9), Little Tich Oct 2016 #11
Except Shira didn't post against free speech in post #3 aranthus Oct 2016 #14
I would characterize her posts in favor of banning SJP as being against the notion Little Tich Oct 2016 #15
Wrong again, you see what you want to see. I just want you to condemn SJP. shira Oct 2016 #17
I read the CUNY report on the allegations against SJP. Little Tich Oct 2016 #20
You're deflecting. SJP calls for the destruction of Israel. shira Oct 2016 #21
I don't know of any instance where SJP is calling for Israel's destruction... Little Tich Oct 2016 #23
SJP is part of Omar Barghouti's BDS movement which calls for Israel's destruction... shira Oct 2016 #26
I've read your post, and I still disagree with you. Little Tich Oct 2016 #27
What it means for you is irrelevant. aranthus Oct 2016 #28
I'm sorry - I just assumed that calling for equal rights wasn't considered racist. Little Tich Oct 2016 #29
Uri Avnery calls BS on your BDS demand of right-of-return.... shira Oct 2016 #30
We don't have any common ground on which to have a discussion. aranthus Oct 2016 #31
Let's recap the argument: Little Tich Oct 2016 #32
False recap. aranthus Oct 2016 #33
Ughh, please no... Little Tich Oct 2016 #34
The consequence of my beliefs? aranthus Oct 2016 #35
It actually seems as if we lack common ground for a discussion on this subject. n/t Little Tich Oct 2016 #36
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