Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Creative Speculation
In reply to the discussion: Here's a correction OP for 50 Reasons, 50 Years OP [View all]William Seger
(11,323 posts)85. Baloney
> The "unsubstantiated speculations" in episode #12 are the conclusions of the HSCA's photographic panel...
The actual conclusions of the photographic panel were:
2. VISUAL EVIDENCE DERIVED FROM OBSERVATIONS OF PERSONS IN THE ZAPRUDER FILM**
(a) Issues
(57) The Panel was requested by the committee to address, at a minimum, three questions
(58) (a) When did Kennedy first show a reaction to some severe external stimulus?
(59) (b) When did Connally first show areaction to some severe external stimulus?
(60) (c) Was the relative alinement of Kennedy and Connally within the limousine consistent with the single-bullet theory?
...
(c) Conclusions
(64) (a) By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207, as he is seen going behind a street sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.
(65) (b) By a vote of 11 to 3, the Panel determined that Governor Connally first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 224, virtually immediately after be is seen emerging from behind the sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.
(66) (c) By a vote of 15 to 1, the Panel determined that the relative alinement of President Kennedy and Governor Connally in the limousine was consistent with the single bullet theory.
(67) (d) At least two shots, spaced approximately 6 seconds apart were fired at the Presidential limousine. Nevertheless, based only on its review of the reactions of persons shown in the Zapruder film, there was insufficient evidence to reach any conclusion concerning additional shots.
(a) Issues
(57) The Panel was requested by the committee to address, at a minimum, three questions
(58) (a) When did Kennedy first show a reaction to some severe external stimulus?
(59) (b) When did Connally first show areaction to some severe external stimulus?
(60) (c) Was the relative alinement of Kennedy and Connally within the limousine consistent with the single-bullet theory?
...
(c) Conclusions
(64) (a) By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207, as he is seen going behind a street sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.
(65) (b) By a vote of 11 to 3, the Panel determined that Governor Connally first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 224, virtually immediately after be is seen emerging from behind the sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.
(66) (c) By a vote of 15 to 1, the Panel determined that the relative alinement of President Kennedy and Governor Connally in the limousine was consistent with the single bullet theory.
(67) (d) At least two shots, spaced approximately 6 seconds apart were fired at the Presidential limousine. Nevertheless, based only on its review of the reactions of persons shown in the Zapruder film, there was insufficient evidence to reach any conclusion concerning additional shots.
So in the first place, the reason that they had to take a vote on the questions was because there was a difference of opinion about the answers, with no objective fact that could be derived from the film to settle those differences of opinion. It simply isn't possible to establish as objective fact when each man was hit using the Zapruder, so any arguments that begin by pretending you can is inherently fallacious.
Furthermore, there's nothing in that conclusion to support your assertion that "Connally has not yet been hit by a bullet." What it actually says is that most of the experts voted that the first visible sign of a reaction in the film is "virtually immediately after be is seen emerging from behind the sign that obstructed Zapruder's view." If Connally was also hit when the panel voted that JFK was hit, frame 207, any reaction then wouldn't be seen in the film because Connally was behind the sign. Or, if the first actual reaction was at frame 224, that doesn't necessarily imply that that's when he was hit, because the visible reaction could have been delayed by a second. But you just offer your speculations as fact and jump to the unsound conclusion that there were two shots one second apart. Speculation is not evidence.
> If you had watched with care and attention, you would have realized that the case had already been made that Ms Adams WAS accurate about her timings and this was not only corroborated, but it was done with a visual reference - i.e. Miss Garner saw the two women leave to the staircase and then afterwards saw Mr Truly and officer Baker heading upstairs. These are the two men who encountered Oswald in the lunch room.
Um, maybe I didn't "realize" that because no such case is made in the video? How much "care and attention" is required to "realize" something that isn't there? But whatever... if you now want to make that argument, then actually make it or link to something that does and we'll see if the claims can withstand scrutiny.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
168 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Thanks for posting, I watched the first 9 videos from the links in your earlier posts.
eomer
Feb 2013
#1
Episode Three: Bill Simpich speculates that Oswald was part of "false defector" program
William Seger
Feb 2013
#13
Episode Five: John Armstrong again, speculating about "two Oswalds" again
William Seger
Feb 2013
#16
On posting the videos as they come out each week, and on your being blocked for it...
eomer
Feb 2013
#7
I followed the discussion and I thank you for having, by far, the more reasonable approach.
NYC_SKP
Feb 2013
#14
It would appear that the poll speaks for who's more interested in the videos...
MrMickeysMom
Mar 2013
#19
Clicking on your posts, hoping that maybe this time there will be something
William Seger
Apr 2013
#86
"...but the single-bullet theory remains the best explanation of the facts."
MrMickeysMom
Apr 2013
#87
c) Seger dismisses information on Oswald's history and background as unsubstantial
William Seger
Mar 2013
#30
The minutes of the first Commission meeting, and I provided the link (n/t)
William Seger
Apr 2013
#81
Baloney. It's not a "rhetorical device" to demand FACT-based DEDUCTIVE reasoning
William Seger
Mar 2013
#56
I have only watched the first first video and half of the second, so they might address that point.
ZombieHorde
Apr 2013
#103
Well, I suppose the earth being round remains a point of contention since some believe it is flat...
zappaman
Apr 2013
#111
In other words, Fiester has NO CLUE the 2.5" forward head-snap even happened
William Seger
Apr 2013
#123
What's refuted is your bizarre interpretation of "contemporary ballistic science"
William Seger
Apr 2013
#143
I really don't understand why you keep responding if that's the best you can do
William Seger
Apr 2013
#155