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William Seger

(11,239 posts)
20. You are pointlessly running around in circles
Mon Oct 28, 2013, 11:17 PM
Oct 2013

> The fact that NIST's models did not show the curtain wall is meaningless unless you are going to claim that a) the floors pulled loose from the perimeter columns, which remained standing for 600 feet without distorting (despite the presence of a breeze from the NW)

You were doing pretty good with "the floors pulled loose from the perimeter columns," until you threw in the unnecessary claim about "remained standing for 600 feet." There's no reason for that. The videos that show a wave of breaking windows rippling across and up the building indicate that the shell began falling very soon after the interior structure collapsed. And I'm not sure why I have to repeat this, but what I said was I believe the floor girders fell away from the perimeter columns, beams, and curtain wall, and considering the wind loading the exterior was designed to take, there is no reason to assume it was as flimsy as you suggest.

Again, the simple and obvious point: The NIST simulation did not include the curtain wall, but that's all we can see in the video, so there is no logical reason to expect the two to look the same. But you fail to grasp the idea -- deliberately? -- that the purpose of the simulation was to investigate collapse initiation scenarios and simulate how the structural elements behaved immediately thereafter, not to create a video that superficially LOOKED like the curtain wall shell falling. That happened AFTER the things that the simulation was designed to study, so it's irrelevant. One does not need to be a structural engineer to see why that's so; one only needs rudimentary familiarity with the principles of valid logic. The reason I don't believe you're going to find any competent engineers who are interested in redoing the simulation to include the curtain walls is I would expect a competent engineer to understand that it's completely irrelevant to the collapse. And doing so in an attempt to appease conspiracy theorists would be a complete waste of time, anyway; that simply isn't possible. Their cries for an "honest investigation" is a dishonest, since ANY investigation would be dismissed exactly like the NIST report if it also concluded that demolition theories are abject bullshit.

> You have not demonstrated that a cracking sound is an unavoidable presence in controlled demolitions. That's like claiming that slaying is always done through lethal injection or firing squads or hanging, and thus someone could not have been slain with the jawbone of an ass.

Given that explosives destroy things by creating large shock waves, and a shock wave in air IS a loud cracking sound, then yep, I claim that sharp cracking sounds will be heard in any demolition that involves explosives. The lack of such sounds is why some "truthers" started fantasizing about thermite demolitions, which have never been demonstrated. But there's a problem, as shown by Richard Gage's cognitive dissonance: When he wants to explain why there weren't any sounds resembling high explosives, he claims thermite was used, but when he wants to explain the "sudden onset" of the collapse he claims explosives were used. He will do that in nearly back-to-back sentences and not bat an eye. (Oh, I forgot; that's a sign of superior intelligence in your world. )


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"Where are you now, we need you brother," says the YouTube poster William Seger Jul 2013 #1
How do you explain the Thermite? damnedifIknow Jul 2013 #2
No need to explain things that didn't happen William Seger Jul 2013 #3
I hate to chastise you, but... tomk52 Aug 2013 #4
Who has replicated Dr. Millette's findings? And what peer-reviewed journal has published them? Ace Acme Oct 2013 #8
I guess we don't need all the demolition experts then. ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #5
Not if the demolition experts want to remain employed: cpwm17 Aug 2013 #6
"the building will come straight down" William Seger Aug 2013 #7
WTC7 came straight down in terms of its E and W walls remaining plumb. Ace Acme Oct 2013 #9
Pointless point William Seger Oct 2013 #10
Point: it came straight down absolutely for most of its fall. Ace Acme Oct 2013 #11
Hmm, good point -- except for being wrong William Seger Oct 2013 #12
The NIST simulations bore no resemblance to reality Ace Acme Oct 2013 #13
The NIST simulation William Seger Oct 2013 #14
Oh brother Ace Acme Oct 2013 #15
Oh brother, read it again: The CURTAIN WALL panels are not in the model William Seger Oct 2013 #16
Are you claiming that the perimeter columns fell down with the rest of the structure Ace Acme Oct 2013 #17
Umm, no William Seger Oct 2013 #18
What you expect is not what NIST's models show Ace Acme Oct 2013 #19
You are pointlessly running around in circles William Seger Oct 2013 #20
You seem to be obfuscating Ace Acme Oct 2013 #21
Obfuscating? You seem to not understand much of what I say William Seger Oct 2013 #22
It's not my fault I don't understand what you say Ace Acme Oct 2013 #23
I can explain it to you; I can't understand it for you William Seger Oct 2013 #24
You're going in circles Ace Acme Oct 2013 #25
Here we go round the Mulberry bush William Seger Nov 2013 #27
You believe that the perimeter columns remain standing when the interior of the building fell down. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #30
Another pointless point William Seger Nov 2013 #31
The NIST simulations bore no resemblance to reality Ace Acme Nov 2013 #32
Your "wet paper bag" is completely pointless William Seger Nov 2013 #34
It's not my "wet paper bag"; it's NIST's "wet paper bag" Ace Acme Nov 2013 #35
"... it shows that NIST's computer models are completely off the beam." William Seger Nov 2013 #36
The models bear no resemblance to reality. Nor do your claims. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #37
I've watched that many times, and what I see... William Seger Nov 2013 #38
What you "see" in the video is your own fantasy about an explanation Ace Acme Nov 2013 #39
You claim "no resemblance" but then just ignore a list of resemblances William Seger Nov 2013 #40
The behavior of the building exterior in the sim bears no resemblance to reality. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #41
Why would Saddam go through the trouble and risk of planting explosives in buildings greyl Oct 2013 #26
Who said Saddam did anything at all? Ace Acme Nov 2013 #28
Members of Bush Gang Swore Under Oath Saddam Was Behind 9/11 greyl Nov 2013 #29
Did they swear up and down that Saddam planted explosives in the the towers? nt Ace Acme Nov 2013 #33
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