Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

William Seger

(11,239 posts)
22. Obfuscating? You seem to not understand much of what I say
Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:03 PM
Oct 2013

... so what you take as obfuscation may well be your own confusion.

> You claimed that the fact that NIST's models did not show the curtain wall was significant. It wasn't significant. The model showed the perimeter columns folding up like a wet paper bag. That's what's significant. It bore no resemblance to reality.

But I have a lot of patience, so I'll keep saying the same thing until you show some sign of comprehending it: The curtain wall was not included in the simulation because it was not a gravity-load-bearing structural element. The "perimeter columns folding up like a wet paper bag" does not have a "resemblance to reality" that we see in the videos because of that omission from the model, but that is completely irrelevant to what the simulation was designed to study, which was the collapse initiation and propagation through the load-bearing structure.

According to the NIST hypothesis, the curtain wall did not contribute to the initiation of the collapse, nor could it possibly have prevented the collapse propagation through the interior structure. If you want to challenge the NIST hypothesis about that initiation and propagation, have at it, but yammering over and over about a "wet paper bag" of the exterior columns minus the curtain wall doesn't do the trick, because the building is already going down by that time. You can (and probably will) in post after post after post ignore that logic, but to do so is simply a waste of bandwidth and the time it takes to read your posts.

> Thermite demolitions have been done. In 1935 a 600-foot steel tower was taken down with thermite in Chicago.

Hmm, that's an interesting story, but looking into the details makes it easy to see why it wasn't tried again for even a simple tower, much less an office building: "Huge “overshoes” in the form of cupolas made of steel and lined with firebrick were constructed around two legs of the tower and filled with 1,500 pounds of thermite."

> Explosives planted inside the hollow columns and sized to bulge, but not break, incendiary-heated column walls would buckle the columns and the sound would not escape to the outside.

As I already said (and you apparently didn't check), the absurdity of that hypothesis is moot since structural drawings for WTC 7 show I-beam columns, not hollow columns, throughout the building.

> It's a sign of superior intelligence to avoid jumping to conclusions, and your apparent belief that one must choose between thermite and explosives is simple minded. There is no reason that scientifically-applied thermite could not achieve sudden onset.

Superior intelligence is no defense against self-delusion, nor does it guarantee that ad hoc "just so stories" have a shred of plausibility. Your claim that thermite could achieve sudden onset is completely unsubstantiated by any rational proposal for how to do that, but sorry, there's a bigger issue: There certainly are reasons to have extreme doubts about the alleged conspirators concocting such an unnecessarily complicated and cockamamie demolition method and expect to pull it off without a hitch, particularly since there is no rational reason why they would need to produce a sudden onset! In fact, arranging for the collapse to occur slowly would make it look much less like a controlled demolition. How is it that your superior intelligence missed that consideration when it started dreaming up ways to get a sudden onset with thermite? Somehow, the superior intelligence of conspiracy theorists seems to consistently fail to explain why conspirators are manifestly incapable of designing simple and safe schemes but instead seem to actually prefer the most complicated and risky hoax they can come up with.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

"Where are you now, we need you brother," says the YouTube poster William Seger Jul 2013 #1
How do you explain the Thermite? damnedifIknow Jul 2013 #2
No need to explain things that didn't happen William Seger Jul 2013 #3
I hate to chastise you, but... tomk52 Aug 2013 #4
Who has replicated Dr. Millette's findings? And what peer-reviewed journal has published them? Ace Acme Oct 2013 #8
I guess we don't need all the demolition experts then. ConcernedCanuk Aug 2013 #5
Not if the demolition experts want to remain employed: cpwm17 Aug 2013 #6
"the building will come straight down" William Seger Aug 2013 #7
WTC7 came straight down in terms of its E and W walls remaining plumb. Ace Acme Oct 2013 #9
Pointless point William Seger Oct 2013 #10
Point: it came straight down absolutely for most of its fall. Ace Acme Oct 2013 #11
Hmm, good point -- except for being wrong William Seger Oct 2013 #12
The NIST simulations bore no resemblance to reality Ace Acme Oct 2013 #13
The NIST simulation William Seger Oct 2013 #14
Oh brother Ace Acme Oct 2013 #15
Oh brother, read it again: The CURTAIN WALL panels are not in the model William Seger Oct 2013 #16
Are you claiming that the perimeter columns fell down with the rest of the structure Ace Acme Oct 2013 #17
Umm, no William Seger Oct 2013 #18
What you expect is not what NIST's models show Ace Acme Oct 2013 #19
You are pointlessly running around in circles William Seger Oct 2013 #20
You seem to be obfuscating Ace Acme Oct 2013 #21
Obfuscating? You seem to not understand much of what I say William Seger Oct 2013 #22
It's not my fault I don't understand what you say Ace Acme Oct 2013 #23
I can explain it to you; I can't understand it for you William Seger Oct 2013 #24
You're going in circles Ace Acme Oct 2013 #25
Here we go round the Mulberry bush William Seger Nov 2013 #27
You believe that the perimeter columns remain standing when the interior of the building fell down. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #30
Another pointless point William Seger Nov 2013 #31
The NIST simulations bore no resemblance to reality Ace Acme Nov 2013 #32
Your "wet paper bag" is completely pointless William Seger Nov 2013 #34
It's not my "wet paper bag"; it's NIST's "wet paper bag" Ace Acme Nov 2013 #35
"... it shows that NIST's computer models are completely off the beam." William Seger Nov 2013 #36
The models bear no resemblance to reality. Nor do your claims. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #37
I've watched that many times, and what I see... William Seger Nov 2013 #38
What you "see" in the video is your own fantasy about an explanation Ace Acme Nov 2013 #39
You claim "no resemblance" but then just ignore a list of resemblances William Seger Nov 2013 #40
The behavior of the building exterior in the sim bears no resemblance to reality. Ace Acme Nov 2013 #41
Why would Saddam go through the trouble and risk of planting explosives in buildings greyl Oct 2013 #26
Who said Saddam did anything at all? Ace Acme Nov 2013 #28
Members of Bush Gang Swore Under Oath Saddam Was Behind 9/11 greyl Nov 2013 #29
Did they swear up and down that Saddam planted explosives in the the towers? nt Ace Acme Nov 2013 #33
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Creative Speculation»This message was self-del...»Reply #22