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In reply to the discussion: 9/11 Free Fall 7/18/13: Dr. deHaven-Smith and "conspiracy theory" [View all]William Seger
(11,050 posts)85. Newton's Third Law?
That reminds me of a joke, and his name is James Gourley. I'd guess that readers of the Journal of Engineering Mechanics don't get a lot of opportunity to laugh their asses off at a published article, but "truther" Gourley afforded that opportunity when he wrote a Discussion (a letter to the editor) criticizing one of Bazant's published papers and Bazant took the opportunity to write a Closure (a response to a Discussion). It takes a lot of balls to suggest that one of the world's foremost experts in structural mechanics doesn't understand Newton's Third Law, which Gourley repeatedly did in his letter (see link), but Bazant was very polite while giving those balls a sound whacking with a big clue bat:
Closure to Mechanics of Progressive
Collapse: Learning from World Trade
Center and Building Demolitions by
Zdene˘k P. Baant and Mathieu Verdure
Discussion by James R. Gourley
The interdisciplinary interests of Gourley, a chemical engineer with a doctorate in jurisprudence, are appreciated. Although none of the discussers criticisms is scientifically correct, his discussion provides a welcome opportunity to dispel doubts recently voiced by some in the community outside structural mechanics and engineering. It also provides an opportunity to rebut a previous similar discussion widely circulated on the Internet, co-authored by S. E. Jones, Associate Professor of Physics at Brigham Young University and a cold fusion specialist. For the sake of clarity, this closure is organized into the points listed subsequently and rebutted one by one.
1. Newtons Third Law: The discusser is not correct in repeatedly claiming that Newtons third law is violated in the paper and particularly in concluding that the two-phase collapse scenario is scientifically implausible because it ignores Newtons third law and the equal but opposite upward force dictated by it. As explained at the outset in every course on mechanics of materials, this law is automatically satisfied, since all the calculations are based on the concept of stress or internal force, which consists of a pair of opposite forces of equal magnitude acting on the opposite surfaces of any imagined cut through the material or structure. This concept is so central to the discipline of structural mechanics and self-evident to structural engineers that Newtons third law is never even mentioned in publications.
Collapse: Learning from World Trade
Center and Building Demolitions by
Zdene˘k P. Baant and Mathieu Verdure
Discussion by James R. Gourley
The interdisciplinary interests of Gourley, a chemical engineer with a doctorate in jurisprudence, are appreciated. Although none of the discussers criticisms is scientifically correct, his discussion provides a welcome opportunity to dispel doubts recently voiced by some in the community outside structural mechanics and engineering. It also provides an opportunity to rebut a previous similar discussion widely circulated on the Internet, co-authored by S. E. Jones, Associate Professor of Physics at Brigham Young University and a cold fusion specialist. For the sake of clarity, this closure is organized into the points listed subsequently and rebutted one by one.
1. Newtons Third Law: The discusser is not correct in repeatedly claiming that Newtons third law is violated in the paper and particularly in concluding that the two-phase collapse scenario is scientifically implausible because it ignores Newtons third law and the equal but opposite upward force dictated by it. As explained at the outset in every course on mechanics of materials, this law is automatically satisfied, since all the calculations are based on the concept of stress or internal force, which consists of a pair of opposite forces of equal magnitude acting on the opposite surfaces of any imagined cut through the material or structure. This concept is so central to the discipline of structural mechanics and self-evident to structural engineers that Newtons third law is never even mentioned in publications.
Link.
Bazant proceeds to dismantle every single one of Gourley's misconceptions, with the recurring theme that Gourley is simply not familiar with material taught in elementary courses in structural mechanics. Hence Bazant's summary of Gourley's criticisms:
Closing Comments
Although everyone is certainly entitled to express his or her opinion on any issue of concern, interested critics should realize that, to help discern the truth about an engineering problem such as the WTC collapse, it is necessary to become acquainted with the relevant material from an appropriate textbook on structural mechanics. Otherwise critics run the risk of misleading and wrongly influencing the public with incorrect information.
Although everyone is certainly entitled to express his or her opinion on any issue of concern, interested critics should realize that, to help discern the truth about an engineering problem such as the WTC collapse, it is necessary to become acquainted with the relevant material from an appropriate textbook on structural mechanics. Otherwise critics run the risk of misleading and wrongly influencing the public with incorrect information.
Ouch, that's gotta leave a mark. And yet, here you are six years later -- and six years after Gourley promised he was gonna give Bazant whatfor youbetcha in a reply -- here you are parroting Gourley's bullshit because it's still out there on "truther" sites, "misleading and wrongly influencing the public with incorrect information."
> If it was not possible to model the collapses in 2005, why should we rest on the limitations of 2005-era computers? Let's run the models with 2013 computers! What possible excuse is there for not doing it?
Go ahead. Maybe you should ask Richard Gage what he's doing with all that money he's collecting, besides touring the world, and why those "2,090 architects and engineers" haven't already done that, or in fact, come up with a single scientifically valid challenge to the NIST hypothesis. (Hint: Gourley is one of the brighter ones.)
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9/11 Free Fall 7/18/13: Dr. deHaven-Smith and "conspiracy theory" [View all]
damnedifIknow
Jul 2013
OP
You claimed that the "conspiracy theorist" label was not applied to legitimate skeptics
Ace Acme
Oct 2013
#6
Non sequitur, false dichotomy, straw man nonsense was your attempt at an argument nt
Ace Acme
Oct 2013
#12
The history of those alleged hijackers' training includes registered addresses
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#31
So, the best you can do is fart in the general direction of some of the confessions
William Seger
Nov 2013
#34
It was possible to access most of the main structural columns from the elevator shafts
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#61
Most of the main structural core columns were accessible from the elevator shafts
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#64
NIST lied. The collapses were not explained. The 10 mysteries were not addressed.
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#82
The point is irrelevant. Bazant's model does not resemble reality. NIST does not name him.
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#98
I understand what he says just fine. What he says bears no resemblance to reality. nt
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#102
So your best is to change the subject and try to ignore the fact that your expert
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#36
"Confessions" to interested parties that are known to lie to achieve their objectives
Ace Acme
Nov 2013
#43