Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

eomer

(3,845 posts)
28. I showed you what was (or should have been) obvious...
Mon Nov 17, 2014, 05:59 PM
Nov 2014

that it matters over what time span the energy is delivered. It seems we've agreed on that. So now we've move past (by abandoning it) the earlier claim that the kinetic energy of the upper part had to collapse the lower part no matter how it was delivered. That claim was clearly incorrect.

Now the claim (which isn't Bazant's claim) is that we can assume that all the kinetic energy of the upper part was delivered in less time than it would take the lower part columns to rebound. I don't see how anyone can justify such an assumption. If it went against collapse then maybe there's an argument but it doesn't - it goes in favor of collapse. And we know that in the chaotic real life event it obviously wasn't true in at least some cases. In some cases the structures of the upper part would have failed first so that they would have delivered some fractional part of the overall kinetic energy during this new time interval that we're considering. So if in some cases in real life it wasn't the case then what justification can we find for assuming it in the idealized proxy? I'm not seeing it. In any event this isn't what Bazant's idealized model was based on.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The mysterious, magical world of Bushonian Science gyroscope Nov 2014 #1
I know! It's fucking hilarious the shit they try to peddle as physics! wildbilln864 Nov 2014 #2
He was using the Beatle's Magical Mystery tour bus gyroscope Nov 2014 #3
Lol don't forget the building that nothing hit (prewired for demolition) newfie11 Nov 2014 #5
"I'm about to give some of these 9/11 truther dumb-asses a little bit of a lesson" William Seger Nov 2014 #4
The guy is being sarcastic gyroscope Nov 2014 #6
Yup, he's trying to be sacastic William Seger Nov 2014 #7
It's a valid comparison. gyroscope Nov 2014 #8
The comparison is ludicrous William Seger Nov 2014 #9
Bad example gyroscope Nov 2014 #10
LOL, what about Gyro's Law? William Seger Nov 2014 #12
Explosives, hydraulics, whatever gyroscope Nov 2014 #14
"symmetrically" lol .... tell me, why would there be an asymmetry .... rewinn Dec 2014 #41
" because walls are not built strong enough to bear the buildings above them at a crazy wrong angle" wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author rewinn Jan 2015 #51
Exactly: the idea that WTC should topple over in one piece like a 2x4 is silly but .... rewinn Jan 2015 #52
don't know where you get that 2x4 strawman from but... wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #53
Or less than .01 of architects and engineers disagree with him. zappaman Jan 2015 #54
Got proof? OBenario Nov 2015 #59
William, do you also believe..... wildbilln864 Nov 2014 #11
I believe Bazant's conclusion William Seger Nov 2014 #13
Haha Bazant is an idiot gyroscope Nov 2014 #15
Bazant is one of the world's foremost experts in structural mechanics William Seger Nov 2014 #17
"Bazant is one of the world's foremost experts in structural mechanics" OBenario Nov 2015 #57
Bullshit William Seger Nov 2015 #60
thhe crackpot probably wrote that shit himself or... wildbilln864 Nov 2015 #61
then you believe in nonsense and not science! wildbilln864 Nov 2014 #16
Failed demolitions are caused by... William Seger Nov 2014 #18
Bazant has no argument that needs refuting. eomer Nov 2014 #19
Bullshit William Seger Nov 2014 #20
No, as that paper explains repeatedly, calculations of the real life physical process were not done. eomer Nov 2014 #21
I don't think I agree with your assessment. AZCat Nov 2014 #23
You have never understood Bazant's argument William Seger Nov 2014 #24
Or else you have never understood it. eomer Nov 2014 #25
That makes no sense cpwm17 Nov 2014 #26
That was an intentionally extreme hypothetical for only a very narrow purpose. eomer Nov 2014 #29
" But to demonstrate through engineering principles..." William Seger Nov 2014 #37
Bazant didn't "demonstrate" that the ENTIRE top block was falling? William Seger Nov 2014 #27
I showed you what was (or should have been) obvious... eomer Nov 2014 #28
I made no such claim William Seger Nov 2014 #30
Bazant and Zhou's elastic dynamic analysis William Seger Nov 2014 #31
collapse was inevitable!? wildbilln864 Nov 2014 #32
Great response. zappaman Nov 2014 #33
Hard to argue with a baffoon gyroscope Nov 2014 #35
That's exactly how the professional building community feels about the "truthers". AZCat Nov 2014 #36
Ha!!! GGJohn Jan 2015 #44
Yes, if even one floor collapsed, total collapse was inevitable William Seger Nov 2014 #34
your every post is nonsense lately! wildbilln864 Nov 2014 #38
Pro tip: When you accuse someone of "nonsense" ... William Seger Nov 2014 #39
Ha!! Good catch. GGJohn Jan 2015 #45
"Yes, if even one floor collapsed, total collapse was inevitable" wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #47
Wow, what a well thought out, educated response. GGJohn Jan 2015 #43
it's just as educated as "collapse was inevitable"! wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #46
Nope, that proves what happens with bad guesses William Seger Jan 2015 #49
more sophistry! wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #50
Wow, I didn't realize this guy was using Anders Bjorkman as a reference. AZCat Nov 2014 #22
This is what i call "Hillbilly Physics." n/t RoccoR5955 Dec 2014 #40
That's a great name for a band! n/t zappaman Jan 2015 #48
and a kick! n/t wildbilln864 Mar 2015 #55
and remember that as the collapses proceeded down the structure wildbilln864 May 2015 #56
Great video! Thanks n/t OBenario Nov 2015 #58
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Creative Speculation»9/11 Physics: "You C...»Reply #28