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Feminists

In reply to the discussion: It’s Time For No-Wave Feminism [View all]
 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
50. and what I see is self-interest
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 12:37 PM
Feb 2012

The easy way out. If somebody wants to be an object, let her.

Me, I am actually concerned about others. Hm, isn't that what the criticism of the old-schoolers is? That we weren't concerned about others, just about our privileged selves (even if we weren't actually privileged at all)?

I don't believe that any woman's choice is free unless the constraints that all women operate under in society are removed.

If it's somebody's choice to be a sex worker, then it is somebody else's choice to be an abused wife.

There simply is no way around that.

Some groups and some individuals are vulnerable and disadvantaged from the outset. I believe that a decent society has a responsibility to protect its vulnerable members. I believe that responsibility overrides individual freedom in some instances. The extreme vulnerability of women all over the world to sexual abuse and exploitation overrides the "choice" of some privileged woman (privileged by virtue of the very fact that she lives in a developed society, for starters) to play at being a sex object for whatever reasons she may assert.

I believe there are bad choices, choices that some women make that harm themselves or other women or their society at large, whether they make them because they actually have no choice or because they are simply self-interested and have no regard for anyone but themselves.

In some cases I will indeed "judge" those women and their actions, where they seem to be acting with a minimum of constraints. In the case of the young woman in Thailand I saw a documentary about some years ago, who prostituted herself in the city in order to support her rural family, I will judge her a hero; the constraints in her life left her little choice, and she made the choice that did the most good for other people. She was not the source of women's problems, she was a victim of them. In the case of the North American woman demanding the "freedom" to prostitute herself for profit, I will judge her for what she is: self-interested and selfish, and not in any way deserving of my concern if her choices are limited against her wishes in an effort to improve the lives of women living without choices. Because she is very definitely part of the problem.

A feminism that demands that all choices women make be given equal respect is the real feminism of privilege, the "feminism" of those who are lazy and self-absorbed.

On the subject of pearl clutching, b*tch and c*nt -- these words don't bother me. I understand how they can be denigrating to some (if not most women or the LGBTQ community) but I choose not to allow these to bother me.

No. You choose not to acknowledge that not all women are affected the same way by those words, and that those words have effects on society at large that are harmful for women. You choose to put yourself above other women in deciding what you will give a damn about. If it doesn't bother you, then you will do nothing about it, and to hell with anyone who gets hurt.

Doesn't mesh real well with that whole "intersectionality" thing, if you ask me. I thought that was about understanding other women's problems and examining how our own immunity to those problems affects our feminism.

I've seen other's questioned on these things and I think accusing other feminists of not supporting other feminists in certain battles is not productive.

Jeeeeezus. The irony is just too strong here.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It’s Time For No-Wave Feminism [View all] justiceischeap Feb 2012 OP
Gee, I learned something new. New wave or old wave or post feminists. I never thought of it that southernyankeebelle Feb 2012 #1
This will take trust, and calm, and a thick skin seabeyond Feb 2012 #2
I totally agree... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #3
Thank you and you're welcome. justiceischeap Feb 2012 #4
i think this is where presumptions and misconceptions come in seabeyond Feb 2012 #5
My thinking goes along similar lines... Violet_Crumble Feb 2012 #7
and what I see is self-interest iverglas Feb 2012 #50
I'm going to comment here... redqueen Feb 2012 #55
Thanks for your well-thought out reply. justiceischeap Feb 2012 #56
Understood redqueen Feb 2012 #57
I'm sorry, after all the animus expressed over the last however many days Remember Me Feb 2012 #6
It should be offensive Remember Me justiceischeap Feb 2012 #8
It isn't unique to women, or feminism. redqueen Feb 2012 #9
I understand it isn't unique to women or feminism justiceischeap Feb 2012 #10
I can HONESETLY say that women are no different from men in that regard Remember Me Feb 2012 #11
You're avoiding/ignoring the point justiceischeap Feb 2012 #12
And one could also argue Remember Me Feb 2012 #42
Justice is cheap and goes to the highest bidder justiceischeap Feb 2012 #43
You know, it wasn't meant as a put down Remember Me Feb 2012 #44
Nor did I take it as a put down justiceischeap Feb 2012 #45
I have issue with it iverglas Feb 2012 #51
agree with this article maddezmom Feb 2012 #13
Thank you for taking the time to read it justiceischeap Feb 2012 #14
I've be doing a lot of reading maddezmom Feb 2012 #38
Great article! Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #15
I think that happens to most adults justiceischeap Feb 2012 #17
because someone disagrees, does not mean they are fools though, necessarily. seabeyond Feb 2012 #19
Thanks sea, but I didn't say that justiceischeap Feb 2012 #25
Yes. We stand together or we fall alone. yardwork Feb 2012 #16
Gotta love a "Lost" reference justiceischeap Feb 2012 #18
I wasn't! Help! I've never seen Lost. Who is Jack? yardwork Feb 2012 #20
Go to Netflix now and get Season One! obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #21
I dropped my netflix account so that I could afford to buy a star on DU! lol! yardwork Feb 2012 #22
Check the library! obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #24
Great idea but I seriously don't own a TV. LOL! yardwork Feb 2012 #28
Only if your computer has a DVD drive justiceischeap Feb 2012 #32
It does! I remember now that's why I realized that I didn't need a TV or cable. yardwork Feb 2012 #33
i could easily get rid of cable and the tv. we only have it because seabeyond Feb 2012 #36
I realized how much I was spending on cable and I never used the TV, so I gave it away. yardwork Feb 2012 #37
There was a TV show on ABC called "Lost" justiceischeap Feb 2012 #23
Thanks! Now I get it. yardwork Feb 2012 #27
Good examples, especially "The Handmaid's Tale". Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #26
Ever since 2000 I think about The Handmaid's Tale all the time. yardwork Feb 2012 #29
She sure did! Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #30
Is it worth the read? justiceischeap Feb 2012 #31
It's great. I don't think it's dry at all. yardwork Feb 2012 #34
Zillion times better than the movie obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #35
It's super-good. Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #39
Great article! Lisa D Feb 2012 #40
You're welcome justiceischeap Feb 2012 #41
The main thrust of this seems to be - don't be nasty, redqueen Feb 2012 #46
I don't know that the author was actually proposing a new name justiceischeap Feb 2012 #47
there's nothing as women or individuals we can do to avoid being stereotyped seabeyond Feb 2012 #48
So you think people won't always stereotype other people? justiceischeap Feb 2012 #49
look at the difference to what i replied to. seabeyond Feb 2012 #52
I agree, we must always try combating stereotypes justiceischeap Feb 2012 #53
of course they do. hence the battle. and women are less intelligent than man, not capable of seabeyond Feb 2012 #54
In theory should be easy since there is much agreement by all who want to advance womens equality stevenleser Feb 2012 #58
i think that is all pretty much a given... steven. agreed. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #59
Is conflict inherently bad? redqueen Feb 2012 #60
Either way works for me. stevenleser Feb 2012 #61
Hey Stevenleser justiceischeap Feb 2012 #62
I think I do have a slight preference for a more civilized discussion with less argument. stevenleser Feb 2012 #63
justice Whisp Feb 2012 #64
Tides that ebb and flow ChaRipley Oct 2012 #65
What I think is really sad about this is, there are wide areas of agreement across waves stevenleser Oct 2012 #66
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