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Feminists
In reply to the discussion: 2nd and 3rd wave feminism [View all]Remember Me
(1,532 posts)46. Speaking as a 2nd Waver, I think 3rd Wave, as described
is part of the backlash AGAINST feminism. I really do.
As for what's wrong with it (or wrongheaded), I just found this comment in another thread which IMO demonstrates perfectly why and how one aspect of 3rd wave feminism is dangerous to women:
thread: Research from Geena Davis's Institute on Gender in Media.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1139&pid=351
comment:
16. Just watched A League of Their Own last night.
I love Geena Davis the actress and the activist in gender equality. Women and girls are constantly being portrayed as nothing more than sex toys for men's pleasure. We are more often than not taken less seriously because of our gender and that limits our potential success in society.
Note: Because of the above comments on the girl with the dragon tattoo - I rented it and returned it the same night. Anyone who found that to be entertainment is morbid. Sexual violence is not entertainment, it is an epidemic that should be shamed and eradicated - not sold as recreation.
First, there was NEVER a prohibition by 2nd wavers on sex or enjoying sex. If anything, we invented the term "double standard" and were absolutely adamant that women could be just as promiscuous as men (if they wanted) and not be denigrated for it. We led the way in getting a woman's previous sexual history and behavior just prior to rape excluded from rape investigations and trials. And so forth and so on. Not that these are all adequately nailed down, but that we were right there on the front lines for these and other issues.
It was feminists who created COYOTE, Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics -- a rights group for prostitutes.
But 2nd wave feminists also clearly identified the nexus between the sex industry and the degradation of women in other ways. I am personally convinced that we will NEVER be equal and free while pornography and other parts of the sex industry flourish. That's not calling for them to be outlawed, but for people to be at least educated and/or shamed away from participation. (Shame in the sense of: gee, now that I understand how it hurts women, I won't support that. Just as many people have been educated/shamed away from drunk driving.) Feminists also identified the nexus between both the economic oppression of women and sexual abuse as contibuting factors to women (and also men) entering the field as workers -- both horrible human rights blights on humanity. So I concur completely with this statement from the OP:
Other critics argue that the Third Wave feminists do more damage than good by equating womens sexuality with power. Critics argue that this kind of sexual empowerment is purely individual and does not lead to social change, and in fact promotes the sexualization of women.
Anyone who equates their sexuality as women with power have been sold a bill of goods -- and by whom? Supporters of patriarchy, of course.
Third Wave feminists are encouraged to build their own identities from the available buffet, and to not worry if the items on their plate are not served together traditionally. Women can unapologetically celebrate a plate full of entrée choices like soccer mom, career woman, lover, wife, lesbian, activist, consumer, girly girl, tomboy, sweetheart, bitch, good girl, princess, or sex symbol.
The buffet was made possible by 2nd wave feminists, and it worries us (okay, makes some of us absolutely hysterical) to see it so poorly understood and appreciated that 3rd wave women risk it all through their inattention to political realities, their complacency, and their gleeful, wrongheaded pursuit of "sexual freedom" which they believe empowers them (?????? that last doesn't even pass the common sense test).
We're not looking for thanks, but merely the political sensibilities that 3rd wavers so they can help safeguard what passes for a little equality and not lose any more ground.
Does anyone who thinks of themselves as 3rd or in between 2nd and 3rd understand what the motto, "The personal is the political" means? Have any of you ever given it any thought? I think I'm going to open a separate thread for that.
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i think the problem is that when people say "the whole" they very rarely mean it
La Lioness Priyanka
Dec 2011
#4
thru out history and the human race, people have been able to look beyond self
seabeyond
Dec 2011
#7
its not about altruism. its about not-knowing and being blind to that
La Lioness Priyanka
Dec 2011
#8
A lot of people would be more compassionate if they could see things from a different perspective.
CrispyQ
Dec 2011
#36
i agree with you, and that's why i can see why a feminist may say that while
La Lioness Priyanka
Dec 2011
#16
I don't think we should pretend that they are making feminist choices - that any choice made by
iris27
Dec 2011
#20
ok. i see that. in your initial post it didnt read as though it was being celebrated as a choice
La Lioness Priyanka
Dec 2011
#21
I don't know, she's not the only such person I've encountered, just the most out-there. It'd be
iris27
Dec 2011
#24
I think that woman is confused. I don't think most 3rd wavers would agree with her
stevenleser
Dec 2011
#26
Feminism was my first introduction to politics. I am more drawn to 3rd wave thinking
stevenleser
Dec 2011
#25
i asked how you see 3rd wave, because i am interested in different perspectives
seabeyond
Dec 2011
#29
that was a very frustrating thread. supposedly with people that are open to discussion
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#54
but you do not want it for your daughter cause you know the inherent problems and issues with that.
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#59
The reasoning is different and goes to the heart of what constitutes Empowerment and Bias
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#62
in the thread was the issue of men rating a woman. that as my issue. until men started addressing
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#64
so really, the sex positive female is merely the pro porn woman? no wonder the men are into the 3rd
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#65
Why else would Gail Dines define third-wave "feminism" as being "all about capitulation."
laconicsax
Jan 2012
#66
No need, I read the entire thread. I knew exactly what I was saying and why.
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#72
Well, you clearly weren't responding to what I wrote, so it makes me wonder.
laconicsax
Jan 2012
#74
i dont know what wave i am in, but going by the names i am called, guessing 2nd. and you would be
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#75
i dont know the other two, but i have liked everything i have heard from naomi wolf
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#77
I read that article when it came out. I'm a big fan of hers and have met and talked to her
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#78
you are premising womens argument to fit your perception of them. i have heard it many times in
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#79
Civil/Gender rights issues are moral issues too. Perhaps I didnt make that clear
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#80
we are talking rights not sex. i have always and consistently supported civil and gender rights
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#81
You tried to suggest that I felt that 2nd wavers were addressing porn as a moral issue
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#82
Me too. Here is the bottom line and what I think is the way for second and third wavers to work
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#90
Is trying to force that philosophical point on people who dont agree worth alienating people who
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#94
the options provied seems to be stfu. and i think women have had enough of being told to stfu.
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#95
But a large group of women disagree with that. Are you telling the women who disagree to STFU?
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#96
100% committed to the equal treatment of GLBT people, regardless of anything said to
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#102
When you address the inconsistencies in your approach, I'll enter into a lengthy dialogue
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#85
Thank you! I raised her to be able to kick butt academically, intellectually and physically.
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#53
wow steven, that is all kinds of awesome. it is wonderful seeing a girl do....
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#55
She is off to College next year. That video helped land her the soccer scholarship she received
stevenleser
Jan 2012
#58
thank you for this post. as i say. i dont feel like i fit or even understand either.
seabeyond
Dec 2011
#45
I'm Gen X, I think, which is why I can relate to one thing with that third wave...
Violet_Crumble
Jan 2012
#91
kicking. looking thru google for a particular third waver, i cant remember her name.
seabeyond
Dec 2013
#103