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DonCoquixote

(13,676 posts)
77. That's your opinion
Sat Feb 18, 2012, 10:22 PM
Feb 2012

Just as I have mine, you have yours, but part of what I wanted to bring up is that, like all words, the meaning is more subjective than it appears. Some will love Paglia and Dworkin, some will HATE both, and then some will go "Eh, they are ok, but not as important as (insert name here.)"

Part of the reason I focus on the actual meaning is because, like all humans and all movements, people might bleed themselves to death over subjective detail, while ignoring objective facts that will build a harder consensus than what someone's faavortie author is.

a) Objective, demonstrated fact: Women are shafted into second class positions, by Heterosexual males who think they have a right to do that.
b) Objective, demonstrated fact: LGBT people are shafted into second class positions, by Heterosexual males who think they have a right to do that.
c) Objective, demonstrated fact: The Heterosexual males at the present moment have greater numbers and/or poltical influence.

Logical conseuqence of a, b & c: Whatever the disagreements between those who would defend the interests of Women and LGBT (Henceforth labeled "Feminists" and "LGBT activists", they should be prepared to focus on their true enemy, because, despite arguments, they have common interests.

No, I am not trying to be a "male feminist" (whatever that is supposd to mean.) I speak because frankly, I have common interests that go beyond dworking or anyone else, because those same males that hate women are the same people that hate brown skinned males, for the most part. Yes, sadly some brown skinned males have fallen for the misogynist, heterosexual crap that white executives have sold to them, and I am among the first to tell said brown males that they are being unwitting servants. Still, even though many people do not like me, I still know where myinterests are, and they are not with the vultures that circles over us while we fight. They have grown fate and strong off of us, and by that, I mean ALL OF US, because however different we may think we are, they see us all the same.

my ex-- with whom I remain close friends... mike_c Feb 2012 #1
i am afraid seabeyond Feb 2012 #5
I grew up in the 60s too. MarianJack Feb 2012 #2
hey.... seabeyond Feb 2012 #6
She was a great lady. MarianJack Feb 2012 #11
The radical notion that women are actually people tavalon Feb 2012 #62
As I said, tavalon,... MarianJack Feb 2012 #64
Actually, I knew that, but I've always felt a resonance with it. tavalon Feb 2012 #65
You know, tavalon, what you say remonds me... MarianJack Feb 2012 #66
that you MM. and all the men and boys in my life would certainly agree. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #3
What about separatist feminists? redqueen Feb 2012 #4
one could also ask iverglas Feb 2012 #7
This is what I don't get... redqueen Feb 2012 #10
Let me tell you my story LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #18
How very odd. redqueen Feb 2012 #19
This was a predominantly gay women's meeting LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #22
Aha, now it makes sense. redqueen Feb 2012 #23
"N.O.W. was hijacked by women who hated other women" Scout Feb 2012 #20
this is the interesting paradox iverglas Feb 2012 #21
Wow. Just wow. CrispyQ Feb 2012 #67
I have no doubt that there are some women who hate some men. MineralMan Feb 2012 #9
Hah! I nearly typed that myself in my reply... redqueen Feb 2012 #12
Ever heard Ice T's song "Big Gun"? ismnotwasm Feb 2012 #74
And some of the so-called hatred that may exist is really Remember Me Feb 2012 #46
well about Dworkin DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #51
agreed. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #52
Personally ismnotwasm Feb 2012 #75
That's your opinion DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #77
I don't see how anyone could like ismnotwasm Feb 2012 #78
Well played milady, and game on. DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #80
I have actually known a few kdmorris Feb 2012 #8
There are certainly reasons for individual women to hate or fear MineralMan Feb 2012 #13
I know women like that too LiberalEsto Feb 2012 #42
Me too! kdmorris Feb 2012 #50
There was a period, collegewise, where all ills, genderwise, were the fault of men. WingDinger Feb 2012 #14
We are all in this together. seabeyond Feb 2012 #15
++ This is a universal truth cbrer Feb 2012 #43
so true... hey, seabeyond Feb 2012 #44
This is a really thoughtful and profound comment MadrasT Feb 2012 #27
Madras, if you've ever said, Remember Me Feb 2012 #48
A VERY nice, even powerful post Remember Me Feb 2012 #47
You are right about one thing. CrispyQ Feb 2012 #68
What's bad is that even in these Texasgal Feb 2012 #16
I'm not sure if this is accurate across the board, but it MineralMan Feb 2012 #17
I didn't say across the board. Texasgal Feb 2012 #26
The amount of overt and covert sexism on DU has always amazed me and efhmc Feb 2012 #79
yes, exactly a way to shame and shut you up. my boys laugh. we joke about it in the house seabeyond Feb 2012 #24
I'm a feminist and fought hard for the ERA. I never hated men nor did I give them up! sinkingfeeling Feb 2012 #25
I would consider my wife a feminist. She just calls herself just a lady however. Broderick Feb 2012 #28
i dont know that seabeyond Feb 2012 #29
My mother passed quite some years ago. Broderick Feb 2012 #30
not so hard, i dont think seabeyond Feb 2012 #32
Oh so familiar Broderick Feb 2012 #57
+1 CrispyQ Feb 2012 #69
My experience was different. Ms. Toad Feb 2012 #31
that is an interesting perspective.... seabeyond Feb 2012 #33
My wife told me she ran into a small group like that once. ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #34
well.... and what i learned last week, lol seabeyond Feb 2012 #35
Post the good bits. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #36
i have posted a couple articles i enjoyed. seabeyond Feb 2012 #39
Was the same subgroup 40+ years ago unc70 Feb 2012 #71
Yeah, I believe it comes from their very deep woundedness Remember Me Feb 2012 #49
Would you say, as a DU man, that mistertrickster Feb 2012 #37
cat fights, fur flying men having a jolly old time.... at the expense of seabeyond Feb 2012 #40
It was a yes or no question . . . mistertrickster Feb 2012 #41
emphatically, YES du men agree with the political feminist goals. emphatically, YES. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #45
Yes, I think so, but then, I don't know most DUers very well. MineralMan Feb 2012 #56
Thank you for a thread acknowledging the prevalence of this idiot stereotype. BlueIris Feb 2012 #38
Let me offer this DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #53
exactly... the consternation and defensiveness with the first reported rape seabeyond Feb 2012 #55
You know I was not going there. BUT DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #58
sure. but that is often times the hard part of being pragmatic and speaking out seabeyond Feb 2012 #60
"no need to defend, excuse, or dismiss." DonCoquixote Feb 2012 #59
exactly. this is what i am talking about. nt seabeyond Feb 2012 #61
I think the hard wiring is so different BlueToTheBone Feb 2012 #54
Men who said that preferred being hated to being ignored n/t eridani Feb 2012 #63
~lol! CrispyQ Feb 2012 #70
You know ismnotwasm Feb 2012 #72
Thanks, but not even I love all my posts. MineralMan Feb 2012 #76
You know ismnotwasm Feb 2012 #73
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