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RainDog

(28,784 posts)
46. Society, not women
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 03:29 PM
Jun 2012

My example, however, was that aristocratic MEN began to marry women whose families were middle class because of money. These men had titles and land but no money when the industrial revolution changed GB from a rural to urban society. Until the 1880s, married women had no right to their own property or assets, so marrying a female with money meant the husband became the owner of her property or assets.

So, the "fantasy" was that these aristocratic males married middle-class females for love - but the reality, often, was that these marriages were family transactions - the aristocratic family got cash to pay taxes on estates and the middle-class one got a family member with a title and entrée into aristocratic circles to help other members of that family gain access to titles, etc.

Not to say a female saw herself in that way - but some surely knew what was expected of them - but that was a reality. Then, the aristocratic male would have sex with whomever he pleased and actually love someone else - not necessarily the female who was his wife. Divorce was not an option. The female provided an heir to the family, for both sides, and made her family more upwardly mobile.

Not all marriages were like this, but the reality is that marriage has been about things other than love for most of its existence - among royalty, aristocrats and the middle class. No one really cared about the poor one way or another in this regard - ever.

Marie Antoinette married Louis to seal a political alliance b/t France and the HRE. The French Revolution came about because a middle class in France was expected to pay for the extravagance of the aristocracy and royalty (including funding wars like our own Revolution to spite GB.) The poor didn't start the French Revolution - it was a newly-emerged middle class (lawyers, scholars) that wanted a piece of the power in government decisions - like who pays taxes. Just like here, now, the elite didn't think they should pay taxes to fund the state. A lot of them lost their lives, not just their property, for their inability to compromise.

In GB, aristocrats made room for the middle class a little more readily - often by "political alliances" that allowed the middle class to marry into the aristocracy.

Aristocrats did not start nor propel the industrial revolution. Jenny Uglow wrote a great book called Lunar Men that talks about the beginnings of the scientific revolution. The men who did this were not at Cambridge and Oxford - those universities taught the classics, philosophy, etc. - and they were closed off to anyone who wasn't part of the Church of England. Dissenters like Joseph Priestly (the founder of Unitarianism) and middle-class inventors created the wealth of the scientific/industrial revolution. Aristocrats were supposed to govern everyone else, not earn money by work.

Women, historically, could either get married or join a religious order or live with her family and take care of her parents as they aged and then move in with another family member when her parents died. She couldn't hold a job or earn her own keep and be respectable. A VERY FEW did - earn money as governesses - but, even then they were controlled by another family.

Schools as we know them didn't start until the dissenters (anyone who wasn't anglican church) wanted people to learn to read so that they could interpret the bible for themselves and, just as importantly, if not more so, to encourage sobriety because factory work needed sober workers much more than farm work did.

Universal education (for males, initially) didn't come about until the industrial revolution needed workers who could read instructions. So, even then, schools were by and for males more often than not.

Women didn't have choices. Their entire lives were determined by the men they married. Of course women wanted to marry males who wouldn't leave them and their children (because birth control was also not an option) destitute. Women in the work force after marriage is an invention of the 1960s and 70s.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I haven't read it but because of all the buzz I hope that others here will discuss it. Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #1
Same here, Gormy obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #4
I'd join you if I didn't have 4 books checked out from the library. Neoma Jun 2012 #2
Same here, many books already in line tammywammy Jun 2012 #6
Nice to see you too! one_voice Jun 2012 #8
I'd rather read about Nixon. Neoma Jun 2012 #13
I don't really want to read it. FloridaJudy Jun 2012 #3
Ha! That is dead on! obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #5
Hilarious! n/t tammywammy Jun 2012 #7
Perfect! one_voice Jun 2012 #9
"Butt plug, what the hell is a butt plug?" Neoma Jun 2012 #12
That was hilarious and like you, I will take their advice and skip this one. yardwork Jun 2012 #21
Sounds like "The Story of O" Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2012 #51
I started it a while ago and just picked it up again maddezmom Jun 2012 #10
It started out as "Twilight" fan fiction. Warren DeMontague Jun 2012 #11
I thought you meant Twlight Zone at first. Neoma Jun 2012 #14
ITS A COOKBOOK!!!!! Warren DeMontague Jun 2012 #15
How to Serve BDSM obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #17
50 Shades author at least admits her writing sucks obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #16
thank you for posting this OKNancy Jun 2012 #18
I don't read BDSM books obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #19
I had an acquaintance who was reading it FloridaJudy Jun 2012 #20
It's amazing how many people have misconceptions about feminism. yardwork Jun 2012 #22
The ending ruins the Story of O, but have you ever watched "Secretary"? obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #23
I've heard of that movie. I like Maggie, too. Also like her brother. yardwork Jun 2012 #24
In the real world of BDSM there are LOTS of male submissives Marrah_G Jun 2012 #47
That's what I figure obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #53
I'm with you on The Story of O FloridaJudy Jun 2012 #25
...and the piercing that clanked. Yikes. yardwork Jun 2012 #26
C-clanked? Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #27
I wish I hadn't read it. Seriously. yardwork Jun 2012 #31
It always seemed like the writer got close to the end LadyHawkAZ Jun 2012 #39
I read that she wrote it in an effort to keep her boyfriend's attention. yardwork Jun 2012 #43
Real BDSM relationships also aren't abusive obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #44
I've heard that. This was strictly amateur night. yardwork Jun 2012 #45
Bingo Marrah_G Jun 2012 #48
I'm halfway through the second one KaryninMiami Jun 2012 #28
Agree.. one_voice Jun 2012 #29
Sometimes you need trashy obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #32
I read the first one RainDog Jun 2012 #30
Promise me one thing obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jun 2012 #35
I agree with that quote obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #41
"Down there" drives me crazy too Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #34
no joke RainDog Jun 2012 #36
Start writing! n/t Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Jun 2012 #40
That is THE reason women married until quite recently obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #42
Society, not women RainDog Jun 2012 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Jun 2012 #52
A lot of women died in childbirth RainDog Jun 2012 #56
I forced myself to read the trilogy over the last LadyHawkAZ Jun 2012 #38
I never really pay attention to best sellers anymore. Neoma Jun 2012 #49
there's a couple of authors that I follow LadyHawkAZ Jun 2012 #50
I like that with George RR Martin and Bill Bryson obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #54
I started following Sue Grafton LadyHawkAZ Jun 2012 #57
I've been told I'd like Terry Prachett obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #58
Belly laughs and lots of 'em LadyHawkAZ Jun 2012 #59
The closest I've come to following one author, has been Mary Roach. Neoma Jun 2012 #55
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