Feminists

And there is a history, and it is as real for those of us who suffered the mistreatment as the lesbian feminists' history in the outside world is to them.

Yes, "we" have been subjected to a campaign of abuse over years, portrayed as uptight, prudeish, anti-sex, asexual, anything else you can think of along that line. I was called Victorian in the beauty pageant thread, along with reams of other things.

We actually aren't making these things up.


More than one lesbian has said that they don't feel welcome in traditional feminist discussions, some of them here on DU, perhaps some of them in this forum.

If one of them here present would stand up and type three short sentences, or 10 long paragraphs, I don't care, telling us WHY, we would all be thrilled to read them. This has not yet happened. We have had several pronouncements of feelings of exclusion hearkening back to the dark ages, but nothing to explain why these feelings exist now in relation to this group. Really. Nothing.

And to my mind, someone does not get to hang around pronouncing and acting aggrieved, give no explanation for these feelings, and then get all huffy about being repeatedly asked for some explanation, and rely on that as their basis for being aggrieved. And that's all I see happening.

I am aggrieved by the way I was treated over the beauty pageant thing; seabeyond is aggrieved; redqueen is aggrieved. Others there were similarly attacked. All were left hanging out to dry, if not directly attacked, by members of the lesbian feminist group.

I am seeing nothing else that looks like a genuine grievance, or even apprehension, on anyone's part.

The fact is that there is virtually certainly overlap between those who do not feel welcome at present and those who very definitely were NOT welcome in the past, because of their use of terms like "sex-positive feminism" for themselves to portray other women here in extremely negative terms, and their horrifically disruptive behaviour in this group. Did you glance at another thread linked to?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x13828

Regardless of where you might come down on any particular issue, it is the behaviour of a particular element that was and is simply not tolerable in this forum.

And so this discussion was starting from a point you weren't at, among people with knowledge of that history.

And unless and until I get a statement of what these issues are on which we will necessarily have such divergent positions, or what our divergences will be in terms of what issues we consider appropriate for discussion, I'm going with my gut feeling, reinforced by the garbage in the beauty pageant thread, that this is what it's really all about.