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Igel

(36,087 posts)
17. Sometimes.
Mon Jul 31, 2017, 12:48 AM
Jul 2017

1. Not all song lyrics are poetry. Sometimes you put in repetition to round out the tune. (And let's not get started with, say, a Palestrina mass or Handel aria. And what do you do with all the la-la-las that are sometimes used?)

Many song lyrics are bad poetry, but they have music to carry them.

2. I like "high" and "low" for temperatures, but some don't. Glass thermometers make sense for high and low. I think of big numbers as high, but I find at lot of kids raised completely digitally are losing what probably started off as physical descriptions. I stopped being shocked at having to explain "clockwise."

And there's no other way for "high" vs "low" frequency.

3. All languages are highly redundant. No se nada, je ne sais rien, nichego ne znaiu, nic nevidim (let's add Russian and Czech) aren't usually classified as double negatives. I think "negative polarity items" is the wonky phrase that comes to mind. You use one indefinite with a positive verb, a different indefinite with a negative. Si, se algo, je sais quelque chose, ia znaiu koe-chto (or nechto), neco vidim. (The Slavic words with ne- there aren't negative. Look like they could be, but they're not.) "I don't know nothing" isn't okay in standard or formal English, but it's alive and well in some social dialects.

Otherwise we always live with a lot of redundancy. Removing redundancy is a virtue in dense formal language, but much is built into the grammar. In colloquial, spoken language we constantly miss information and redundancy fills it back in. Still, languages get by without copulas and even number. For example, "Song lyrics are poetry" marks plurality twice: -s, are. Russian phrasing would just be "Song lyrics poetry," and would force 'song' to be an adjective on which number and case and gender would be marked, or would make "song" possess (lyrics of song -- poetry). Chinese would drop the -s and compound "song lyrics" as English does but doesn't bother to write. You can't really say "Songs lyrics", has to be singular for compounding.

Plus all those articles, "these" versus "this". Even words like "but" can be omitted through parataxis--it's less clear sometimes, but not here. "Redundancy is a vice in English, a virtue in some other languages." "Vice" and "virture" clearly contrast, so "but" is redundant.

Even things like "When I hear someone say 'blah', it bothers me" has a strange subject. That "it" is pretty meaningless, either it's a filler to make sure every verb has a subject or it refers to "when it bothers me" as the subject. That complete English-language clauses function as subjects is known, but it's most definitely not colloquial. "It's known that English-language clauses function as subjects" is stylistically better these days.

Does redundancy constitute bad grammar? [View all] Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 OP
Take it up with the manager of the department of redundancy management department. nt Xipe Totec Jul 2017 #1
Ah, a nitplicker after me own heart Warpy Jul 2017 #2
FDJT? Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #10
Not always bad poetry, I think... Glorfindel Jul 2017 #3
I agree, Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #11
I'm not sure this cyclonefence Jul 2017 #15
You're not full of shit, my dear cyclonefence...not at all Glorfindel Jul 2017 #16
How do you feel about PIN number? cyclonefence Jul 2017 #18
You mean what I have to punch into the ATM machine Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #19
I love her, but listen to Rachel Maddow with your eyes closed... targetpractice Jul 2017 #4
If we "refer back" to the OP, we'll come to a "general consensus" that he has a point. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jul 2017 #5
"Continue on" bugs me. nt tblue37 Jul 2017 #9
Back in the sixties, rogerashton Jul 2017 #6
Most of those are okay, Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #12
Doesn't rogerashton Jul 2017 #13
No, it means Jane Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #20
Then there are those who get their panties in a twist over "hot water heater"... Rollo Jul 2017 #7
Every time I say "hot water heater", Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #21
Well, does "cold water heater" make any more sense? Rollo Jul 2017 #25
No, a coffee maker is not called a water heater, although it does heat water. Lionel Mandrake Aug 2017 #31
It depends on the medium. Novels vs. songs vs. ordinary speech unblock Jul 2017 #8
Yeah, right. Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #22
How about menus that offer... 3catwoman3 Jul 2017 #14
That drives me up the wall, Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #23
Even worse, I had someone at a very fancy function ask me if I wanted my roast beef "with awe jew" Rollo Jul 2017 #26
Auggghhhh! 3catwoman3 Aug 2017 #28
About that reverse apostrophe... Lionel Mandrake Aug 2017 #32
Thanks for the info and... 3catwoman3 Aug 2017 #33
Yeah, I try to appear knowledgeable even when I'm not. Lionel Mandrake Aug 2017 #34
Sometimes. Igel Jul 2017 #17
It's clear that you know what you are talking about, Lionel Mandrake Jul 2017 #24
While redundancy has its place in poetry.... Docreed2003 Jul 2017 #27
Not a mention of the long history of rhetoric? JackintheGreen Aug 2017 #29
I'm not sure how to parse the 2nd clause in your last sentence. Lionel Mandrake Aug 2017 #30
Hrm...I thought the grammar of the clause was reasonably clear JackintheGreen Aug 2017 #35
Thanks for the clarification. Lionel Mandrake Aug 2017 #36
The RAID insecticide ad slogan meow2u3 Aug 2017 #37
people say I'm redundant prodigitalson Apr 2019 #38
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