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Buzz cook

(2,586 posts)
63. Post Hoc doesn't quite fit.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:46 PM
Aug 2015

Because the OP wasn't pointing at something that had happened and then claimed that something had occurred because of that happenstance.

He was using the rather silly quote that anti law people use to defend gun ownership and then applying that to Chicago. A simple answer to that question from the anti law side would be that Heinlein was a sci-fi author and what he has to say is irrelevant to the gun law debate.
Instead you and others take umbrage to the question.

1.Since Heller and McDonald expanded gun rights in Chicago, including concealed carry, has gun crime increased in the city, no less from those lawfully empowered to own and carry firearms?

This is a very poorly written sentence. From what I can scan from it you mean, has there been an increase in violence amongst those people who have recently purchased guns in Chicago?
If that is your question my answer is I don't know. Do you?

2.Does permitting law-abiding citizens the means to defend themselves under current standards make Chicago more violent or less "polite?"

If guns are used as a means of self defense and there are more people with guns, then by definition violence would increase. You would argue that the violence in those cases would be justified, but none the less it is violence.
But your question is flawed, because it assumes that all uses of a firearm purchased and owned legally will be legal. The odds don't favor that position.


Simply, you and the OP (or the OP's Google dump sources since he rarely, if ever, actually shares his own thoughts or participates in his own threads) do not set the terms of the gun debate, particularly since the current status quo, polling trends, electoral realities and established jurisprudence favor those supporting firearm rights.


And yet the OP started this thread and in this thread he has set the terms of this thread, is that not so?
Setting the terms of any debate requires that sides agree on those terms. So far on the national level I have yet to see any agreed on terms or even clearly defined sides. The same is true of the micro level here on DU.Then each thread is its own island.
Great questions liberal N proud Aug 2015 #1
Right away with the insults. GGJohn Aug 2015 #7
I don't believe you or the quoted one in the OP are serious. nt Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #13
Another special talent... liberal N proud Aug 2015 #16
You think that's special sarisataka Aug 2015 #18
A lot of experience judging from the "activist" visitors! Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #34
Some folks are just goofy turds. ileus Aug 2015 #2
If the guy who is intent on killing people has any smarts TexasProgresive Aug 2015 #3
Yes, some people are.... daleanime Aug 2015 #4
You must have some special talent liberal N proud Aug 2015 #9
Unlike the Controllers who just carry the default assumption everyone wears a black hat Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #14
Unlike those of us who don't have a special talent and can't be certain who is the bad guy liberal N proud Aug 2015 #15
Where I live lots of people carry, every day. No special talent required to not fear them. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #17
Until one of them loses it. liberal N proud Aug 2015 #19
Why would one of them "lose it"? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #24
Oh dear liberal N proud Aug 2015 #25
You seem upset others aren't sharing your delusions. Try to not "lose it." Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #28
Excuse the intrusion discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2015 #29
That pretty well explains why you lot want to stick it to everyone, rather than just the criminals. beevul Aug 2015 #23
And what "lot" would that be? liberal N proud Aug 2015 #26
So pre judging is bad ... except for you pre judging all gun owners - ironic, ain't it? DonP Aug 2015 #30
Since you just cleared the bases... beevul Aug 2015 #32
Sometimes the irony is so thick you need a bow saw to cut through it DonP Aug 2015 #33
WOW, I hadn't seen that. beevul Aug 2015 #35
Well that alerter is now out of the thread DonP Aug 2015 #36
That was a second alert on that same post?? beevul Aug 2015 #37
You don't by chance have the link to which post that alert was on do you? N/t beevul Aug 2015 #39
I see that now Duckhunter935 Aug 2015 #38
In other news..."Socks Gone Wild"... beevul Aug 2015 #40
would not surprise me Duckhunter935 Aug 2015 #42
Short lived. beevul Aug 2015 #43
They have been sarisataka Aug 2015 #44
I'm about 90 percent sure... beevul Aug 2015 #45
I don't doubt that you are correct sarisataka Aug 2015 #46
I see he is still whining to Skinner Duckhunter935 Aug 2015 #59
Hates the 2nd amendment, not too keen on the 1st or 5th either DonP Aug 2015 #60
one word.... Duckhunter935 Aug 2015 #61
NO - I was saying you can't tell which one is going to snap. liberal N proud Aug 2015 #41
Sure you were. Why you'd never stereotype or pre-judge gun owners, right? DonP Aug 2015 #47
I don't pre-judge anyone liberal N proud Aug 2015 #49
Sorry, yes you do, all the time DonP Aug 2015 #56
And yet we know, historically, how many do and do not 'snap'. beevul Aug 2015 #48
Don't put words in my mouth liberal N proud Aug 2015 #50
Don't I? beevul Aug 2015 #54
Starting to look like a stalker. liberal N proud Aug 2015 #55
I bet you say that to everyone you can't bully. beevul Aug 2015 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author liberal N proud Aug 2015 #27
It would seem to me that Chicago's gang culture is the problem hack89 Aug 2015 #5
my answers gejohnston Aug 2015 #6
I don't oppose gun laws sarisataka Aug 2015 #8
I still can't figure out where anti-gun folks get that virginia mountainman Aug 2015 #10
The questioner isn't "serious," he/she is just spewing the usual. Trash this. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author beevul Aug 2015 #12
The problem in Chicago is illegal guns and the warfare between drug gangs ... spin Aug 2015 #20
How do you tell the difference between a guy in a coat... krispos42 Aug 2015 #21
No joke....nt virginia mountainman Aug 2015 #31
So when do we get the serious questions? Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #22
I see that no one answered the Op's questions Buzz cook Aug 2015 #51
Post hoc ergo propter hoc branford Aug 2015 #53
Post Hoc doesn't quite fit. Buzz cook Aug 2015 #63
I offered sarisataka Aug 2015 #58
No you diverted and tried to shift the burden. Buzz cook Aug 2015 #62
I think if I am expected sarisataka Aug 2015 #64
I've had guns all my life. I have bought and sold guns all my life. juxtaposed Aug 2015 #52
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