Gun Control & RKBA

Straw Man

(6,760 posts)

107. You haven't answered ...

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 04:36 PM

Sep 2015

... the pertinent questions.

Not anyone can walk in and buy a gun

What would be the point of any legislation if that were the case. Do you think Italy, or anywhere else wants to become like America regarding guns?

Does one have to be a citizen to buy a gun? Does one have to be pre-screened? Does one have to take a training course? If the answer to any of these is "yes," then your assertion that you could "buy a gun tomorrow" is false. And in case you hadn't noticed when you lived here, not anyone can just walk in and buy a gun in the US; you must be of legal age and pass a NICS check.

All you need is a medical certificate deeming you sane enough to own a gun, be over 18, and a "nulla osta", which is common in Italy for many things. It basically translates as a permission to proceed with whatever project you have in mind. This permission is given by the appropriate administrative authority. In the case of firearms, that would be the local Questura (police). And unless you are assessed as being a threat, the issuance is automatic.

Do you currently have this certificate? If not, then you won't be able to get your gun tomorrow.

What would characterize an applicant as a threat? A history of radical political activism, perhaps?

The rules have nothing to do with classicism, which is pretty funny, when gun ownership in the US is totally class based. Ask any African American who has tried walking around with a gun. Ask any undocumented Latino how easy it is to get a carry permit. Basically, the US criminalizes those who live in the inner city poorer neighborhoods, and arms the white gentry who feel they need protection from the so-called "thugs" who inhabit the inner city.

Classicism? No, I never imagined that the Italians would require you to quote Horace in order to get a carry permit.

US gun ownership is class-based in only those pernicious municipalities that practice the discriminatory policy known as "may issue." When LE is given total discretion, prejudice will come into play. I believe that rules should determine issue status, not the whims of cops and other functionaries. I deplore "may issue." How about you?

By the way, the whole "issue issue" concerns concealed handguns only. Long guns can be purchased with only a NICS check everywhere in th US, with a few regressive exceptions: NYC, DC, and Illinois, IIRC. As for African-Americans being hassled for walking around with guns, the culprit there is racial profiling by police, not discrimination in licensing policies. Undocumented Latinos? Is there any nation in the world that would give a weapons permit to a non-citizen who is in the country illegally? You're grasping at straws there, Starboard.

You still haven't addressed the issue of setting a monetary threshold for carry permits. Please explain why you think that is not classism.

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125 replies

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Xpost: Austrailian gun control... [View all] beevul Sep 2015 OP

The question I have is Duckhunter935 Sep 2015 #1

Very good questions SwissTony Sep 2015 #2

I have a bad connection Duckhunter935 Sep 2015 #3

Fair enough. SwissTony Sep 2015 #4

When you find the actual numbers , please share Hangingon Sep 2015 #7

Oh yeah? sarisataka Sep 2015 #29

Do they still allow CC, and AR type firearms and magazines. ileus Sep 2015 #5

Oh, boy. "a fundamental right to self defense with firearms" SwissTony Sep 2015 #6

but you had gun control before gejohnston Sep 2015 #8

We had gun control, but John Howard tightened things up. SwissTony Sep 2015 #13

the fact that Howard gejohnston Sep 2015 #24

it was undemocratic in that he didn't put the question to a formal referendum. SwissTony Sep 2015 #26

because you wanted it or you were manipulated to wanting it gejohnston Sep 2015 #28

Post Script gejohnston Sep 2015 #30

FFS, do you really claim that knife and gun are the same in a mass murder? Which would you.... Logical Sep 2015 #31

The worst is arson. gejohnston Sep 2015 #32

Worst? No, but much easier. Wow, you are not a deep thinker I assume. nt Logical Sep 2015 #33

I was thinking more in gejohnston Sep 2015 #34

2 things discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #9

I'm sorry to say I probably agree with point 1. SwissTony Sep 2015 #15

About that... beevul Sep 2015 #19

A few more things discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #35

people only attack with firearms and in equal numbers and strength? ileus Sep 2015 #10

Sorry, mate. i don't know what you're saying here. n/t SwissTony Sep 2015 #16

He's saying - Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #46

He's saying "Paranoia rules!" Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #55

Are you saying all confrontations favor or are equal to the capabilities of the victim? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #56

Of course confrontations happen Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #57

"It's how we deal with them that determines what kind of society we live in." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #58

No, but I think the fear of them should be dealt with in the appropriate way Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #59

People make all sort of preparations for all sorts unfortunate events. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #60

I have no emotional response to guns, rational or irrational. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #61

It's definitely irrational if you think criminals don't strike in public. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #62

Then we have a very different idea of what is rational. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #64

What is reasonable about demanding people not defend themselves outside their homes? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #66

Where did I say you should not defend yourself outside the home? Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #68

The problem is -- Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #71

And my point is... Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #74

controllers want prohibition for its own sake gejohnston Sep 2015 #77

"If the US wants to remain credible in terms of basic societal norms..." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #79

Wow, I guess I'm learning something new every day Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #81

I'm aware of the Magna Carta and ancient democracies Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #86

You are "aware" of Magna Carta? Well, say no more. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #89

It's amusing that you can fabricate so many things about what freedom is or isn't and yet Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #96

Rationality and emotion. Straw Man Sep 2015 #63

Then let me clarify Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #65

"How one chooses to do that is a whole other question." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #67

OK I think we're done here Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #69

Explain how there is an ounce of difference about how innocent people Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #70

It only makes a difference if you care about what kind of society you want to live in Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #72

personally, gejohnston Sep 2015 #75

That's a meaningless statement. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #78

Not at all. I don't give a shit if you all carry guns. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #80

For someone who doesn't care Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #85

your stats are not only wrong gejohnston Sep 2015 #73

Further clarification. Straw Man Sep 2015 #76

You seem determined to paint me as some kind of controller. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #82

This is what you, a subject of the crown, want. oneshooter Sep 2015 #83

Thank you for letting me know what I want Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #84

You paint yourself ... Straw Man Sep 2015 #87

Right! Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #90

When the countries in Europe, including the UK, started gejohnston Sep 2015 #88

I could buy a gun tomorrow legally Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #91

Several questions. Straw Man Sep 2015 #92

Italy Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #93

you realize many of the laws are hold overs from gejohnston Sep 2015 #95

Actually, the laws are pretty new and constantly evolving. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #98

there have been changes, gejohnston Sep 2015 #100

Lots of things go back to the time of Il Duce Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #102

the hunting regulation is common in the States gejohnston Sep 2015 #105

Ah, Italy. Straw Man Sep 2015 #97

Not anyone can walk in and buy a gun Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #101

sorry, wrong again gejohnston Sep 2015 #104

Anyone living in the country should have equal rights in terms of self defense Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #106

what evidence do you have race is the reason? gejohnston Sep 2015 #108

These stunts exemplify the reality. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #110

neither gejohnston Sep 2015 #111

Sorry, not familiar with Air Strip One or Piers Morgan Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #115

Never read 1984? gejohnston Sep 2015 #119

Yes I read 1984 Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #120

hatred towards Obama has little to do with race gejohnston Sep 2015 #121

You haven't answered ... Straw Man Sep 2015 #107

rights should not be up for public debate gejohnston Sep 2015 #94

Do you know how many guns have been confiscated from the total in the country? Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #12

I have no information on that subject, but it was a pretty impressive number SwissTony Sep 2015 #18

Regarding Australia... benEzra Sep 2015 #11

your common misconceptions jimmy the one Sep 2015 #14

jimmy the wizard of OZ jimmy the one Sep 2015 #20

your common misconception, #2 jimmy the one Sep 2015 #17

First things first, James. We have unfinished business, you and I. beevul Sep 2015 #21

Pew's new poll! jimmy the one Sep 2015 #22

I'll take that as a concession. beevul Sep 2015 #23

The pro-gun regulars also don't defend those who work against Democrats seeking reelection... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #25

Exactly. N/T beevul Sep 2015 #27

gun retrieval, not confiscation jimmy the one Sep 2015 #36

Says you. beevul Sep 2015 #37

This is the same person that finds it acceptable to attack Dems seeking reelection: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #38

Yup. It is truly astonishing. beevul Sep 2015 #41

compensation in the buyback jimmy the one Sep 2015 #42

The confiscation, you mean. beevul Sep 2015 #44

So if some future president abolished voting but paid each voter $475 you'd be okay with that. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #47

Tapdance all you want, it was and is confiscation: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #39

You are also using a cheap and obvious appeal to authority friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #40

go fetch jimmy the one Sep 2015 #43

"bring back to a more satisfactory state" Back to something that did not exist previously... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #45

Did the owners have the right to decline? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #48

confiscatio jimmy the one Sep 2015 #49

they offered compensation only because gejohnston Sep 2015 #50

If the owners had no choice and the government did not own the property then it was confiscation. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #51

nero & caligula, tyrants? jimmy the one Sep 2015 #54

holy sh.. beergood Sep 2015 #99

make your argument or rebuttal then jimmy the one Sep 2015 #103

So you cite Nero and Caligula. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #109

revise to worst ROMAN dictators in history jimmy the one Sep 2015 #112

Speaking of Roman dictators sarisataka Sep 2015 #113

not bankrupt, your post is jimmy the one Sep 2015 #116

Words usually have several definitions sarisataka Sep 2015 #118

more pathetic jimmy the one Sep 2015 #122

I found the use of the word sarisataka Sep 2015 #123

Just...this. beevul Sep 2015 #124

Bankruptcy. Straw Man Sep 2015 #125

As I said, weirder and weirder. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #114

some of us have too much time on our hands n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #117

Nothing so melodramatic or biased, james... beevul Sep 2015 #52

"Icon and I simply know how to read a dictionary..." No doubt James can also read quite well friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #53