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gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
35. I didn't say anything about doing nothing
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 12:51 PM
Apr 2016

first, the UC Davis "researcher" is an MD and a gun control activist. The study was not peer reviewed and would not pass any peer review. Basically, his study had a under grad walk around a gun show and count the number of straw purchases he thought he saw. If you actually read the study, it is a POS.
Under the tenth amendment and the Commerce Clause, the gun law would be about the same as our drug laws. If you look at the Wright Rossi study, you will find that criminals don't go to FFLs or gun shows.

Also, regardless of the press releases put out by the Howard government, which the media copies and pastes without doing any researching it, Australia is not a success story. First, Australia does not have any federal gun laws. Using the FBI definition of "mass shooting" they had the same number before NFA as after, one.
What the National Firearms Agreement did was blackmail the states into making their gun laws more uniform and ban and confiscate registered semi automatic and pump action long guns from licensed gun owners. Every state had licensing and at least two had registration. Tasmania was the most liberal because you could have a full auto with the same license as a semi auto. That had nothing to do with the mass murder often touted about because his low IQ and history of violence would have prevented him from legally owning a gun, and the gun he used was stolen from a police armory in a different state. Victoria State Police to be exact. It did not affect the murder rate because it simply dropped at the same rate it was before NFA. Same with suicide. It still hasn't done anything about the drive by shootings in parts of Sydney and Perth. Still does nothing about organized crime smuggling guns in, or the biker gangs making their own automatic weapons. One in ten guns confiscated by police is the latter. The Australian Federal Police have no clue how many illegal guns there are.
BTW, New Zealand did nothing with their gun laws and had the exact same effect, dropping murder rate.
Here is a pre NFA study
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=160202
I can't find it at the moment, but a study published in a UK criminology journal outlined the failure of the NFA.
If gun control is so effective, why haven't laws stricter than Australia, including compete bans, prevented most of the countries in the world, including our southern neighbor, to have murder rates several times worse than ours? Also, Australia is nothing like the US. They have a different culture with a different crime problem. Most of their murders victims are killed inside their homes, often by home invasions. Ours is mostly criminals killing each other in a few urban pockets. Most of the country is as safe or safer than there. That is why I go back to these causes

extreme wealth inequality
poor and crumbling infrastructure. Flint isn't alone nor the first with undrinkable water, it just made the news.
violent drug gangs
political corruption

Fix those, you fix 80 percent of our murder problem.

NRA does an excellent job getting the word out ........ "dem dam liberals are gunna take yur gun" if we let them pass one law!
Talk about some good koolaid.
There are those who openly advocate prohibition, and Australia was confiscation, so your argument isn't valid. That is simply part of their ideology. the only difference between ideology and religion is the sky daddy.

Car manufacturers are improving their products.....what has the NRA done?
The most popular handguns are made in Austria and Germany, perhaps you should ask their equivalents. Cars and guns are not the same thing. In terms of safety, gun manufactures have made improvements without any government mandate here or there. The same can not be said about cars.

The consensus of criminologists is that gun laws do not affect crime rates. Every time they are shown to be ineffective, the prohibitionist lobby "just one more law". That is true here as it is in Australia and Canada. Some biker gangs does a drive by with his basement made machine gun in Merrylands area of Sydney, some Green PM will scream for more restrictions on licensed gun owners. They know one has nothing to do with the other, but they don't care. It is about ideology and culture war. Like Bloomberg and the former Monsanto PR flack he hired to create MDA don't give a rat's ass about solutions or saving lives. Their naive followers do, but they don't. When they call fewer gun murders and suicides, although the rates didn't change at all. The means simply change, they call that a success. I don't. When I see them do that, I'm more convinced that it is about personal power and paycheck.

Here is a suggested reading list
http://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X
http://www.amazon.com/Targeting-Guns-Firearms-Control-Institutions/dp/0202305694/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=031J13AJFM1X4A2H4TDS
http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Considered-Dangerous-Peter-Rossi/dp/0202362426/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319354875&sr=1-1
Cruz’s Gun Control Deception [View all] SecularMotion Apr 2016 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #1
Glad I'm not voting for Cruz. Anyway... jmg257 Apr 2016 #2
What I see TeddyR Apr 2016 #3
Chicago rate = 14.35, DC rate = 14.72 discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author CompanyFirstSergeant Apr 2016 #4
Who gives a rip what Cruz says? GreydeeThos Apr 2016 #6
re: "In 2014, Washington, D.C., reported 15.9 murders for every 100,000 people..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #7
Except that flooded the streets with guns... scscholar Apr 2016 #28
I'm legitimately not sure what point you are trying to make TeddyR Apr 2016 #30
Really??? discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #37
Is The NRA Wrong? New Study Shows Guns Rarely Used For Self-Defense aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #8
Why are you bringing up the NRA, nobody else is? DonP Apr 2016 #9
What's this "we" nonsense? SecularMotion Apr 2016 #10
Oooh look, it can speak DonP Apr 2016 #11
Wow, a response Duckhunter935 Apr 2016 #12
Fair enough - Although credible sources could be a matter of opinion. aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #16
"Or should we do nothing and watch the numbers rise? " DonP Apr 2016 #18
One firearm death is one too many..... aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #19
"how can we move to a consensus to protect the 2nd and the rest of Americans?" beevul Apr 2016 #20
An open minded discussion allows for good conversation...... aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #23
Except anti-gunners do not have open minds. beevul Apr 2016 #25
Gun Control talking points..... aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #32
Yup. beevul Apr 2016 #33
All we need is an unbiased SC who rejects the monstrosity known as "Heller" and Actor Apr 2016 #26
Why do you think the 2d limits gun ownership to militia members TeddyR Apr 2016 #29
In other words, you want a biased court. beevul Apr 2016 #34
"The majority of Americans DO want gun control - based on polling data. " DonP Apr 2016 #24
gun studies by the VPC is like a climate change study gejohnston Apr 2016 #13
All very good points TeddyR Apr 2016 #14
The control side has to buy into some myths DonP Apr 2016 #15
The "Do Nothing" approach isn't working to reduce firearm deaths aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #17
"The "Do Nothing" approach..." beevul Apr 2016 #21
Of course we do nothing. aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #27
You can stop with the pretense. beevul Apr 2016 #31
Unfettered access to guns? - Sounds like the middle east! aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #38
Ahh, more pretense. beevul Apr 2016 #42
OK - maybe unfetterred was not the best word to use aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #43
It was predictable. beevul Apr 2016 #49
Ahhh, there's that word again; Compromise - "What are you willing to give up?" DonP Apr 2016 #52
Ed Zachary. beevul Apr 2016 #53
I think they just desperately want to think of themselves as "moderates" on gun control DonP Apr 2016 #55
I can appreciate conjecture........but........ aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #56
Its not conjecture. beevul Apr 2016 #59
Simple Definition of conjecture : an opinion or idea formed without proof or sufficient evidence aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #61
"I have come here...with the objective of trying to draw some consensus" I doubt that very much friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #67
Glad you came to post! aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #70
OK, which *extant* gun regulation(s) would you be willing to give up, in exchange for others? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #71
I have learned alot from this forum but... aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #74
You can't help but double down, can you. beevul Apr 2016 #69
Texas Hold'em Poker! aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #72
I'll stand pat. beevul Apr 2016 #75
Gonna fold for now...you have given me plenty to ponder aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #76
Fair enough. beevul Apr 2016 #78
You've pointed out once again the gun controller's fraudulent version of 'reasonableness': friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #73
Almost missed this post aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #79
an assault weapon is any gun gejohnston Apr 2016 #39
Interesting talking points on assault weapons aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #41
still not one valid argument gejohnston Apr 2016 #44
Valid argument? Who's arguing? aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #48
"Assault weapons" are civilian non-automatics (mostly small caliber), not machineguns. benEzra Apr 2016 #50
I can appreciate being specific in this forum aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #58
They are indeed rifles. The most common rifles in U.S. homes, in fact. benEzra Apr 2016 #68
Thank you benEzra! aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #77
Shrug? Straw Man Apr 2016 #22
Good points aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #40
A few more clarifications. Straw Man Apr 2016 #45
Thanks aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #47
You're welcome. Straw Man Apr 2016 #54
I didn't say anything about doing nothing gejohnston Apr 2016 #35
This is a perfect example of why... beevul Apr 2016 #36
Very interesting analysis aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #46
"Assault weapons" are legal in Germany, Sweden, France, Norway, Hungary, Switzerland, Finland... benEzra Apr 2016 #51
Informative post! aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #57
Is your goal saving lives or culture war? gejohnston Apr 2016 #60
Hmmm...it is reducing deaths, but it is quickly becoming a culture war aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #62
It has always been about culture gejohnston Apr 2016 #64
Thank you gejohnston aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #66
Were it not for the ongoing Holy War against lawful and responsible ownership, benEzra Apr 2016 #63
Great post! aurelius2112 Apr 2016 #65
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