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Straw Man

(6,777 posts)
57. So many misconceptions ...
Mon May 9, 2016, 05:06 PM
May 2016

... so little time.

Put it a different way - all over Europe - a continent with more people than America - kids are safe enough to walk to and from school.

As they are where I live. But not everywhere in America. It's a big country, and a widely varied one.

Most people I know wouldn't be scared to leave their car unlocked on the street or their front door unlocked all day.

And where is this? A friend of mine tried that in Tokyo, where the crime stats are even lower than Europe's. It was fine for several months, and then one day he came home to an empty apartment. He had been robbed. There's relaxed, and then there's foolish. In any case, what does the availability of guns have to do with common burglary? Answer: nothing.

My kids literally have never even heard of a school shooting.

Great. But school shootings are outliers in the overall problem of criminal violence.

I went through metal detectors in High School in the early 90s. Kids in my high school were shot.

And where was this? I live in a semi-rural area of upstate New York, and this doesn't happen. In cities, even small cities, where there is heavy drug and gang activity, it does happen. But it's not because there are more guns there; there are plenty of guns in the country.

The percentage of gun owners killing all those Americans is also beside the point. If you have to suffer to save thousands of kids a year - and by suffer I mean have your toy taken away - then so be it.

Making guns illegal in America wouldn't save "thousands of kids a year." It would save very few, if any. The conditions that breed criminal violence would still exist, and an illegal trade in guns would flourish: just one more product to add to the smorgasbord of organized crime.

And even less when you simply look at all the innocent people that die so you can own a gun.

Innocent people die because someone kills them: guns aren't doing it by themselves. You will not eliminate that possibility by eliminating guns. At most, you will put a dent in it, and the gain won't be without other costs.

I simply don't care about your desire to have one. It pales in comparison to all of the dead Americans.

And I simply don't care about your desire to take it away. At most, you'd be putting a Band-Aid on a society that has cancer. Removing rights as a means of addressing social ills might be tempting, but it's not progressive, and in the long run it doesn't work.

I don't think it should be a right and would indeed support the police knocking on your door and taking it away.

Will these police have guns? Do highly militarized police forces bother you? Where do you think they will begin? Where are they most likely to find illegal guns? Do you see the irony?

Even if it only saved a few hundred children a year.

And what about those who would die because they lack an adequate means of self-defense? Is that part of your calculus?

Your right to a toy doesn't supercede citizens rights to live in safety.

The Second Amendment doesn't exist to protect the right to own toys.
Kinda so what? EdwardBernays May 2016 #1
Generally speaking, gun murders are 50% lower with many more guns in civilian circulation. Kang Colby May 2016 #2
Here's the thing EdwardBernays May 2016 #5
Japan has almost no private gun ownership TeddyR May 2016 #6
yes and? EdwardBernays May 2016 #9
Since Japan contradicted your point? TeddyR May 2016 #14
False. Kang Colby May 2016 #12
we really don't gejohnston May 2016 #3
There you go, bringing facts into the discussion. theatre goon May 2016 #4
those weren't facts EdwardBernays May 2016 #8
Oh, I'm sorry... theatre goon May 2016 #10
Use Google EdwardBernays May 2016 #11
Actually, they were speculation. Straw Man May 2016 #41
When they don't have an answer to what was actually stated... theatre goon May 2016 #43
not true EdwardBernays May 2016 #7
Please. Kang Colby May 2016 #13
Are you saying Jews with guns would have stopped the 'final solution'? angstlessk May 2016 #16
No, but gun ownership would have made it more difficult...in my opinion. Lives would have been saved Kang Colby May 2016 #17
A few guns against the government is suicide...what lives would have been saved? angstlessk May 2016 #18
Tell that to the Viet Cong, Afghans, or dozens of other groups throughout history. Kang Colby May 2016 #22
Are you proposing insurrection of the US? angstlessk May 2016 #23
No. Kang Colby May 2016 #24
No I have read Howard Zinn's History of the United States angstlessk May 2016 #25
Sadly, I'm unfamiliar with Howard Zinn. I might have to check out his books sometime. Kang Colby May 2016 #26
I have audio.com and have gifted Howard Zinns book to many angstlessk May 2016 #28
That sounds great. Thank you for the offer. n/t Kang Colby May 2016 #35
1200 saved by the Bielski group. Straw Man May 2016 #40
Defiance CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #47
The wisdom of Tuvia discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2016 #48
Seems the US has a murder problem TeddyR May 2016 #15
Murder by gun problem angstlessk May 2016 #20
unknown, however gejohnston May 2016 #32
There are stories almost daily TeddyR May 2016 #46
Three times as many people are murdered each year with knives... benEzra May 2016 #59
How many of those states have a rate that... beevul May 2016 #21
Ahhh EdwardBernays May 2016 #42
Yes, assume actions on the part of people who don't even exist, and we'll get somewhere. beevul May 2016 #53
Well EdwardBernays May 2016 #54
I wasn't "saying" anything. I was ASKING... beevul May 2016 #55
I assume EdwardBernays May 2016 #56
So many misconceptions ... Straw Man May 2016 #57
Yes. You do. beevul May 2016 #58
I will give you credit for rubbing the surface, gejohnston May 2016 #31
"a bizarre obsession with guns" says more about you than it does anyone else. N/T beevul May 2016 #19
"Kinda so what?" How mediocre and unimaginative. We have big improvement, but... Eleanors38 May 2016 #50
Not when it's your child Iliyah May 2016 #27
The U.S. is much safer today than any point within the last fifty years. Kang Colby May 2016 #30
I'm still mad Iliyah May 2016 #33
Why? Kang Colby May 2016 #34
Respectfully, the causes of ALL crime and homicides should be studied more... Eleanors38 May 2016 #49
"would put our murder rate on par with Denmark or Australia" CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #29
Some food for thought. I think it is interesting that when Americans are led to believe violence doc03 May 2016 #36
I don't think it is the same population gejohnston May 2016 #37
Well I guess I have to spell it out the firearms industry's biggest doc03 May 2016 #38
no they are not. gejohnston May 2016 #39
You can't tell me the NRA doesn't promote the violence is out of control doc03 May 2016 #44
I haven't seen any such claims gejohnston May 2016 #45
Except it isn't! scscholar May 2016 #51
Please tell me, especially with your handle, that this is sarcasm whatthehey May 2016 #52
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