Gun Control & RKBA

beevul

(12,194 posts)

69. It makes a reference...

Fri Jun 3, 2016, 03:59 PM

Jun 2016

The Second Amendment refers to "a well regulated militia".

It makes a reference, but the militia is NOT what the second amendment is about. Proof of that is contained in the constitution itself, where congress is granted power over the militia. Amendment 2 doesn't say "the right of the militia", it says "the right of the people".

If the Founders had intended that the right to carry be an individual right they would not have needed to reference the militia, which is referenced elsewhere.

That's like...your opinion man.

They could have simply said that all American s have a right to keep and bear arms.

They did just that. They just didn't use wording that you approve of or agree with. How many state constitutions, written in the same era by folks with the same mindset, would you like me to quote?

Justice Scalia was determined to find, or more properly create, an individual right. So he created one by effectively deleting words that contradicted his intent.

Incorrect. Even the dissent is counter to your opinion here.

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Highlight:

Gun Violence Is a Full-Blown National Crisis [View all] SecularMotion Jun 2016 OP

''Gun Violence Is a Full-Blown National Crisis'' Shadowflash Jun 2016 #1

It is in some neighborhoods. 68 people were shot Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone lostnfound Jun 2016 #4

Yeah. Shadowflash Jun 2016 #5

Chicago knows what the problems are. Hopefully they can solve them. jmg257 Jun 2016 #11

Chicago is not the entire nation Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #76

Sarcasm aside, homicide-by-gun is way down since 1969... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #61

Katie told me so.....LOL ileus Jun 2016 #2

Guns have killed more Americans EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #3

They didn't do it on their own. beevul Jun 2016 #29

It's a distinction without a difference EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #30

Any attempt at "confiscating them all and locking them up" would kill more people... Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #31

Of course it wouldn't. EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #34

In fact, I think that would be a low estimate. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #36

We agree EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #38

On that point, but mostly we don't. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #43

well EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #44

No, you "know" nothing of the sort about what I think. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #48

Of course I do EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #102

Laughable. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #103

poor me EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #104

"a lot of people would cop on..." jmg257 Jun 2016 #50

that would be fine, since gun owners are considered enemies. ileus Jun 2016 #41

No, it really isn't. beevul Jun 2016 #33

Right so EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #35

Taking the guns from beevul or Lizzie TeddyR Jun 2016 #37

First EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #39

My problem with your approach TeddyR Jun 2016 #40

no EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #45

That didn't address my question TeddyR Jun 2016 #51

No EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #94

Yes. beevul Jun 2016 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #47

Yep, I like my gunz and I will be keeping them for many years. And then when I'm gone my Waldorf Jun 2016 #89

Tradeoff... sarisataka Jun 2016 #42

Here's the thing EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #49

You do realize sarisataka Jun 2016 #53

no EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #56

I am not only speaking sarisataka Jun 2016 #63

I live in a country now with no guns, gejohnston Jun 2016 #71

lol EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #78

in Europe, gejohnston Jun 2016 #84

The US has the highest per capita gun ownership rate in the world TeddyR Jun 2016 #55

And there you go, almost as if from a script... beevul Jun 2016 #46

here's the thing EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #54

When confronted falsely attributing to others... beevul Jun 2016 #62

I've lived outside the United States, and you are full of shit... Marengo Jun 2016 #90

Not literally EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #93

This is nothing more than an argumentum ad populum, with a dash of cultural cringe friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #96

That same argument EdwardBernays Jun 2016 #99

Mainstream where your are (or not), it's *still* argumentum ad popularum friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #107

Two words in re the value of public opinion: Proposition Eight friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #108

Dozens of people in one region is not the world, so don't try to pass it off as that... Marengo Jun 2016 #98

Thank you, that was put very well friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #106

I'm a bit confused discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #75

Some of those triggers were pulled by cops. JonathanRackham Jun 2016 #101

After Sandy Hook Republicans passed laws that make it easier to have more guns around Botany Jun 2016 #6

But in Japan... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #7

Inner city Milwaukee keeps electing pro-gun Sheriff who asks constituents to buy guns HereSince1628 Jun 2016 #8

because they know Milwaukee city police can't gejohnston Jun 2016 #18

Crimes done with firearms, as well as all violent crime is at the lowest it's been in decades. Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #9

Don't you dare bring facts to this! Indydem Jun 2016 #10

In 2015 we had 258 mass shootings* Botany Jun 2016 #13

What's the historical trend? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #15

What's the historical trend? Botany Jun 2016 #16

Is that what it's really about? Deaths? Or is it just guns you don't like? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #19

I have hunted and owned guns for years thank you very much. Botany Jun 2016 #23

Cool story. Is it about the deaths or just the guns? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #25

What is a "gun humper"? Marengo Jun 2016 #91

"2 20 guage pump shotguns, 1 .22 HR bolt action, & 1 30-30 winchester. " beergood Jun 2016 #97

One person every three days dies from towmotor accidents in this country. Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #24

those are fake statistics from Reddit. gejohnston Jun 2016 #58

The NYT got those numbers from a subreddit called "Guns Are Cool". They are not actual statistics. Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #20

Funny I don't see the humor Botany Jun 2016 #21

Can I make stuff up, and you'll believe it if I get the NYT to print it? Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #22

"Those "statistics" also includes suspects shot or wounded by LEO" beergood Jun 2016 #95

So basically a very tiny segment of gun-related deaths. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #32

America, full of dumb-ass Machine Gun Kellys. nt valerief Jun 2016 #12

How many incidents involve machine guns? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #14

1050...no 800....115....38...one? maybe none? ileus Jun 2016 #17

Piers Morgan says the guy at UCLA used one....so that's gotta count for Press Virginia Jun 2016 #26

Morgan... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #28

I can think of a few... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #27

I believe the N Hollywood thugs killed no one. But THEY got dead via rifles... from a gun shop. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #67

And they were not legal machine guns. Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #81

Nope. Easier to smuggle than jerry-build. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #83

not always. gejohnston Jun 2016 #85

Yeah, I guess so, esp. with the personal use CNC machines. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #86

No CNC necessary. Kang Colby Jun 2016 #92

As I recall, Clyde stole most of his BARs from National Guard armories... Marengo Jun 2016 #100

I think you're just being overly critical... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #105

Interesting perspective, plus there would be the advantage that no controller... Marengo Jun 2016 #110

A crisis that the SCOTUS exacerbated and encouraged with guillaumeb Jun 2016 #57

Heller did not overturn any SCOTUS precedent. gejohnston Jun 2016 #59

You are incorrect on the first claim, guillaumeb Jun 2016 #60

Wrong. beevul Jun 2016 #64

The Second Amendment refers to "a well regulated militia". guillaumeb Jun 2016 #66

It makes a reference... beevul Jun 2016 #69

An interesting argument that you attempt to make. guillaumeb Jun 2016 #72

Theres no attempt about it. beevul Jun 2016 #73

The collective rights theory is only dead until the SCOTUS rules again. guillaumeb Jun 2016 #80

Again, this is your own very flawed perception. beevul Jun 2016 #87

C'mon TeddyR Jun 2016 #77

I trust that I do not have to explain that the SCOTUS is guillaumeb Jun 2016 #79

I understand that the Supeme Court TeddyR Jun 2016 #82

They did... beevul Jun 2016 #88

I'm correct on both counts. gejohnston Jun 2016 #65

"Exacerbated?" Gun-homicides have been dropping. What are you thinking?? Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #68

The crisis your interlocutor refers to... beevul Jun 2016 #70

I wish they would take seriously my theory of the turn-around heat-seeking missile... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #74

The only "National Crisis" where it's half of what it was 20 years ago DonP Jun 2016 #109

Half of what it was 20 years ago, yet they're pushing twice as hard... beevul Jun 2016 #111

That's sheer desperation you see from them DonP Jun 2016 #112

If I said that LYING about our "epidemic of violence" was a full-blown national crisis...... pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #113