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pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
55. Mr. Johnston did a good job on slapping your nonsense down.....but more points:
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:04 AM
Jun 2016
The best information we have is that only 34% of households have guns, so 66% of his sample is flawed.

WTF?! Your "logic" is not just ill, but excruciatingly so! The percentage of respondents who provided a 'yes' response to the DGU query was so small that it's perfectly plausible that they fall within the category of gun owning households. As GE queried - can you provide a plausible explanation of why this would not be the case? The burden of explanation is on YOU.

He just took their word for it.

Simply a brazen lie -- as has already been pointed out. There are some very skilled individuals who can "lie on the fly" as they answer a series of questions.....but such persons are in the great minority. If a respondent claimed a DGU they were asked if the conversation could be recorded from that point -- and yes answers were scrutinized for false positives. Also - as the CDC has admitted - the Kleck/Gertz survey is not an outlier. There are something in the order of 14-15 surveys that support their conclusions. Academia isn't exactly known for it's 'right-wing bias'. So what --- is there some sort of vast "left wing conspiracy" to inflate defensive gun use by "just taking respondents word for it"? Lunacy!

He asked a question that guaranteed a very high false positive rate of response.

There is some validity to this criticism --- but even if all of the DGU surveys are off by a wide margin, it's still pretty ludicrous to suggest that they're off by such a margin as to invalidate the conclusion that DGU's happen with enough frequency to completely or largely offset gun misuse - given the relatively low numbers of gun misuses by criminals. (Quote from CDC on this forthcoming)

He failed to correct for 'telescoping'. Did the respondents actually have a DGU in the last 12 months or was it 15 months?

Mr. Johnston addressed this......but more on this in a moment.

He took the results of his flawed sample and extrapolated it to all households even though 66% did not have guns and therefore could not possibly have had a DGU.

"Logical" fruit from the poisoned tree. See response to #1.

The man does not know how to research and doesn't care to do quality work.

That asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

NOW -- HERE IS THE CRUCIAL POINT W/REGARD TO **ALL** OF KLECK'S RESEARCH:

Targeting Guns contains detailed responses to all of Kleck's DGU critics. Before he went to print, Kleck provided said critics (Hemenway, Wintemute, Ludwig, Cook, Kellerman etc.) with his manuscript --- offering them a chance to rebut any/all of his statements. TO DATE, NOT ONE OF HIS CRITICS HAS RESPONDED. Why would they? Their political purposes were served the moment they tendered their rebuttals -- fully aware that the press would lap up what they had to say and disregard Kleck's comments.

The CDC had one reference to his 2 million DGUs/year and gunners lap it up while at the same time denigrating every other study they've done.

Another falsehood. What a shocker! In point of fact, the latest statement by the CDC is hostile to the gun-restriction position on numerous fronts. More on that in a bit.



Recommended. My addition would be the words guillaumeb Jun 2016 #1
Yes, people will reject you if you attribute to them things they have not said and do not believe. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #14
Universes... beevul Jun 2016 #2
"separate universes with separate rules of logic..." jmg257 Jun 2016 #3
We can dismiss your argument... theatre goon Jun 2016 #4
That's not a derogatory remark, simply saying that people who hang out in flamin lib Jun 2016 #5
Sure, keep moving those goalposts. theatre goon Jun 2016 #6
And then there are some people . . . nt flamin lib Jun 2016 #7
What if you hang out in discussion groups TeddyR Jun 2016 #10
who is also a crappy musician gejohnston Jun 2016 #13
You called me fringe Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #12
Noting the same "like this one." I do seem pretty leftist, now that you bring it up. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #20
The NRA membership may be only 3% of gun owners, benEzra Jun 2016 #52
Yes, I saw that Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #11
Some of them do seem to believe... theatre goon Jun 2016 #15
What you're describing... beevul Jun 2016 #17
Wonder how much of that Skinner will tolerate with his renewed rules of civility? DonP Jun 2016 #18
Uh huh. beevul Jun 2016 #19
Add ammosexuals to the list Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #27
Do you think that juries sarisataka Jun 2016 #28
It would be surprising Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #29
An appeals process means those ignoring the rules will be recognized... beevul Jun 2016 #30
I hope so Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #31
I also note this singling out of the NRA in the context of pre-banned RW sources... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #22
Reminds me of an incident in H.S. I was a big civil rights supporter, a redneck friend wasn't... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #21
That reminds me of "bailing out" my daughter in High School DonP Jun 2016 #24
Heh-heh. Those were the good ol' days. (Afraid it sounds like an old tale, too.) Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #25
She's 40 now and teaches English Lit at Chicago's top High School DonP Jun 2016 #26
He best legends are family legends. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #34
Bansalot Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #23
The OP is a rather weak dancer IMO. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #36
Bear in mind this is originating from a universe where words have... Marengo Jun 2016 #39
K&R - great post! Kang Colby Jun 2016 #8
Wonder why the OP never responded to your question about the book he was reading. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #32
Reminds me of of another poster Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #33
Guess we got our answer re. why we can't have cogent discussions, eh? pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #35
I would use a stronger term Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #37
I can't imagine the answer to be so awkward or revealing as to trigger... Marengo Jun 2016 #40
I could kick at your analogies a bit, but that'd be nitpicking. Decoy of Fenris Jun 2016 #9
Oh, look. It's another "It's hard to have a civil discussion because you 'people' suck" thread. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #16
What is the name of the book? Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #38
I would also like to know the title of this book... Marengo Jun 2016 #41
Seems like "Suing the Gun industry" by Timothy D. Lytton jmg257 Jun 2016 #42
Sorry to be so late but that's the book. flamin lib Jun 2016 #43
Thanks for the heads up - and about the "sleep inducing". Cheers! nt jmg257 Jun 2016 #44
Must say.....not surprised that you'd be drawn to a book with that title. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #45
Kleck couldn't research his way out of a paper bag with a road map and a razor blade.nt flamin lib Jun 2016 #46
Would you say that... Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #47
There are several issues with Klecks methods. flamin lib Jun 2016 #49
just a few things gejohnston Jun 2016 #51
Sorry, GE, but you are positively, absolutely WRONG on every point. nt flamin lib Jun 2016 #54
Asserted without evidence -- dismissed without evidence. NT pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #57
You talking to me or to GE? flamin lib Jun 2016 #59
"Either way you bring NOTHING to the conversation. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #61
Mr. Johnston did a good job on slapping your nonsense down.....but more points: pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #55
Yeah and suppressors will save your hearing. Naaa, they just make your gun longer flamin lib Jun 2016 #60
That nonsense again? Straw Man Jun 2016 #62
After all the complaining about a lack of cogent discussion... Marengo Jun 2016 #64
From that right-wing CDC: (Ooooooops!) pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #56
But the CDC is banned from doing research regarding guns! theatre goon Jun 2016 #63
No........you don't need the sarcasm tag. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #65
LOL - even though pro-control academics have reached the same conclusions re. DGU's. pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #48
See #47. nt flamin lib Jun 2016 #50
I still have yet to see many on the gun control side acknowledge the rarity of rifle misuse, benEzra Jun 2016 #53
Part of the reason is faith-promoting rumor like the following-note who the author is: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #58
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