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Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
8. Responsible owners.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 02:42 AM
Jun 2016

Let me start by saying that I agree in principle with Jolly's proposal, but I also agree with those that say that ALL evidence must be available to the accused. Giving the government free rein to simply put evidence out of bounds by classifying it would make a sham of the whole process.

I do wonder what is the purpose of the rifle used by the Orlando killer? that is, in the hands of a responsible owner, what's it used for?

There is a long history of civilians adopting firearms technology that was originally developed for the military. For example, the ubiquitous bolt-action rifle that most associate with deer hunting is based on military weapons of the first half of the 20th century. The relationship changed when armies around the world adopted full-auto rifles as their standard-issue weapon. Since most countries, the US included, ban or strictly regulate full-auto ownership by civilians, a firewall went up between military long arms and civilian ones.

But consumers are always interested in the latest technology, and those who served in the US military in the '60s and beyond carried the news of that technology to the public at large. Who wouldn't want a lightweight, modular, ergonomic, weatherproof, low-recoiling rifle? So the semi-auto variants were created for the civilian market.

Traditional hunters (sometimes called "Fudds" by the younger shooters) tend not to like them, but ARs and their cousins are adaptable to hunting, especially varmint and predator hunting: coyotes, etc. And they are very popular with competition shooters, in both traditional target disciplines and the newer "practical" events, which are more action-oriented, with rapid movement, reactive targets, etc.

What most of the non-shooting world doesn't realize is that these are far and away the best-selling rifles in the US today, and are also widely used in other countries, albeit sometimes with additional legal requirements, like extra licensing. In one form or another, AR-pattern rifles are legal in Austria, Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, France, Ireland, Italy, New Zealand, Poland, Russia, Sweden, and South Africa. They are legal to own in the UK, but only in the low-powered .22 rimfire version. (Bizarrely, I cannot legally own the .22 rimfire AR that Brits can own because my state, NY, bans them with all the rest.)

The Orlando shooter used a SIG Sauer MCX, which is actually not an AR15 variant, but a completely original design created by the Swiss-German company to compete with AR-pattern rifles. However, the essential configuration is the same: semi-auto rifle, detachable magazine, adjustable synthetic stock, modular construction, pistol grip for the firing hand, chambered in 5.56, etc. There is a full-auto version for military use, and the semi-auto version for civilian markets.

Below is a Google search for images from the National Match meeting for service rifle competition, held every year at Camp Perry, Ohio.

https://www.google.com/search?q=camp+perry+national+matches&source=lnms&tbm=isch

On it's face seems to be a reasonable proposal.. virginia mountainman Jun 2016 #1
as it exists, gejohnston Jun 2016 #2
If the appeal process includes... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #3
+1 nt jonno99 Jun 2016 #4
^^^ This. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #6
Thanks to you Demnorth Jun 2016 #7
Responsible owners. Straw Man Jun 2016 #8
I really appreciate the background and history Demnorth Jun 2016 #14
have to correct one thing gejohnston Jun 2016 #15
Thanks for the info, Demnorth Jun 2016 #21
You're welcome. Straw Man Jun 2016 #18
Thank you for Demnorth Jun 2016 #22
just to add gejohnston Jun 2016 #10
That was a learning experience, Demnorth Jun 2016 #16
You're welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #11
Thanks for the welcome. Demnorth Jun 2016 #19
The whole list thing is a losing idea discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #20
I agree about the media, Demnorth Jun 2016 #24
and thanks back at you discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #25
In the end, I have to come down on the side of "no lists." Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #5
No use of lists to deny firearm purchase rights. Kang Colby Jun 2016 #9
Admirable that Jolly wishes to do something, but S_B_Jackson Jun 2016 #12
THIS!!!!!! Indydem Jun 2016 #17
Sorry for Demnorth Jun 2016 #23
just found this gejohnston Jun 2016 #13
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