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Gun Control & RKBA

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friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
Sun Aug 28, 2016, 03:57 PM Aug 2016

Yup, it's officially a moral panic: [View all]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/university-of-texas-campus-concealed-guns.html?_r=0

College officials in other states with campus carry, like Colorado and Idaho, say there has been little noticeable impact. In Texas, only people older than 21 can carry concealed handguns, and university leaders estimate only a few hundred will do so in Austin. Mr. Marsh said most people would never even notice, which, he added, is “the whole point of concealed carry.”...

...Already, she said, the law has interfered with teaching. During her first class after the law took effect, she said, her English literature students discussed the rules and she explained how she could not legally prohibit guns in class, or even ask who had them.

“Three of them started crying,” she said. “We did not talk about Jane Austen that day.”...


"But f_i," you may very well say, "don't you realize just how dangerous this will be?"

Yes. Yes, I do:

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

(tl,dr version- 108 Texas CCW license holder were convicted of felonies in 2015)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=198548

Out of a population of 940,877-that's *1* conviction for every 8711 permitees

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/ActLicAndInstr/ActiveLicandInstr2015.pdf

Active License/Certified Instructor Counts
As of December 31, 2015



Active License Holders:
937,419
Certified Instructors:
3,458

These numbers reflect the number of licensed individuals and certified instructors


Given the stated estimates by university leaders -and known conviction rates-
it would seem that UT will most likely go about 16 years before the first CC licensee
enrolled there commits any felony, much less one involving illegal use of
a firearm...






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Yup, it's officially a moral panic: [View all] friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 OP
Not really surprised at the crying Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #1
Should have provided a trigger-warning to the class. Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #2
Nice! Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2016 #10
A site to explore: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #3
How many were on a campus? Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #4
"I bet the percentage is actually quite miniscule." It is - see post #5 friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #6
I know, that poster Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #7
Check out the site. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #8
And once again, 2/3 are suicides Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #9
How many murders are committed by someone who then commits suicide? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #11
I expect much less than single suicide. Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #16
And no good is done by attemting to discuss murder in context of small sub-groups guillaumeb Aug 2016 #19
2/3 of the deaths you cite are suicide, not homicide. nt Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #24
The 30,000 dead remain dead. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #43
This context-free burbling re. '30,000 dead' is a good example of why you're failing. pablo_marmol Aug 2016 #48
"30,000 dead" in this case is a 'thought-terminating cliche': friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #64
Yes. Yes it is. pablo_marmol Aug 2016 #65
To be polite; "Overly Simplistic" applies DonP Aug 2016 #70
You are correct, of course, Don........ pablo_marmol Aug 2016 #77
We should catalog Thought-terminating cliches. One of the ones I notice most in GD is Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #68
We need a new thread for that but: discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #69
Since I have to comb through GD for gun posts, it shouldn't be a surprise. Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #71
"The nutters will be along any minute now to explain this away." pablo_marmol Aug 2016 #78
Except suicide is not murder Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #42
The 30,000 dead remain dead. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #44
2/3 by their own choice Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #46
Not only that but they remain deader than those who... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2016 #49
i agree beergood Aug 2016 #54
That would be a larger topic, but we were speaking of "death by gun". guillaumeb Aug 2016 #55
so your saying beergood Aug 2016 #56
I already answered your question. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #57
"And this IS a gun group. Perhaps you should post on this topic." beergood Sep 2016 #117
My shooting is confined to one gun at this point. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #119
"Do you hunt also?" beergood Sep 2016 #120
It sounds like one of these. oneshooter Sep 2016 #121
forgive my ignorance beergood Sep 2016 #122
Definitions oneshooter Sep 2016 #123
thanks beergood Sep 2016 #124
No problem. oneshooter Sep 2016 #125
whats it like beergood Sep 2016 #126
Since I am a traditional shooter I shoot mainly Flint. Locks with PRB. oneshooter Sep 2016 #128
I do not hunt any longer. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #127
Where do you see that? Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2016 #14
The attempt by some gun enthusiasts to divide gun owners into guillaumeb Aug 2016 #21
Attempt by some banners to apply Orwell to the King's English. Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #26
Ahh, gotcha. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2016 #27
Just as all car owners are responsible for traffic deaths. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #20
None of the objects mentioned are designed specifically to kill. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #22
But they *do* kill on occasion. Are those killed by cars and drugs less dead than shooting victims? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #25
Using the standard in #19, no. Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #28
Is killing absolutely bad? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #31
What if you were the target? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #51
You're evading. What if I was the target? Would using deadly force to stop that person be bad? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #52
You asked originally if killing was bad. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #53
"Unanswerable with no context." Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #59
Self defense is a concept that I believe in. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #60
Fine words, indeed- but they do not answer the question asked. Here it is again: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #62
Particular cases do not have bearing on a right. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #66
That "right" is an inextricable part of the case. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #73
Oh nonsense. beevul Aug 2016 #75
The claim that Zimmerman exercised a right has no bearing to anyone outside of the case. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #76
Yes it was self defense gejohnston Aug 2016 #79
Is this the official NRA fairy story version of the murder of Trayvon Martin? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #80
It is the objective facts and evidence presented at trial gejohnston Aug 2016 #81
Objective facts has nothing to do with this. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #82
Objective facts have everything to do with it gejohnston Aug 2016 #83
He baited you and you took it. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2016 #84
go figure gejohnston Aug 2016 #85
So poor George Zimmerman is actually the victim in all this? guillaumeb Sep 2016 #86
The character of persons in particular cases have no bearing on rights in other cases friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #87
Zimmerman was looking for an excuse to use his gun. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #88
Wow! That's a pretty "creative" interpretation of the actual evidence and testimony DonP Sep 2016 #89
Creative writing, or the NRA rewriting history? guillaumeb Sep 2016 #92
So the NRA rewrote the court records? DonP Sep 2016 #94
Oh wise man, you forgot your link. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #95
No, what I forgot is that gun control fans are lazy as well as cheap DonP Sep 2016 #96
You made a specific allegation. You have refused to back it up. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #111
So, we'll add "not the sharpest pencil in the drawer" to lazy and cheap DonP Sep 2016 #112
More evasion and avoidance. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #113
If I'm attacked without provocation and fear grave bodily injury do I have a right to Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #114
Yes. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #115
You need to be provided evidence that courts keep records? N/T beevul Sep 2016 #116
Way, way too much like work, ... easier to rely on cartoons for your opinions DonP Sep 2016 #118
Thats your opinion. beevul Sep 2016 #90
For the sake of argument, let us concede that your estimate of him is correct. friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #91
No, it does not. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #93
If someone, without provocation, threatened me with grave injury or death would I Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #97
Of course NOT!!! oneshooter Sep 2016 #99
I wish my other interlocutor would answer the question. He's made a point to answer so many other Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #100
I think you scare him. n/t oneshooter Sep 2016 #103
I can't imagine anyone less imposing than me. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2016 #106
But.....but.....but............. pablo_marmol Sep 2016 #109
Nor are they specifically designed to defend oneself. Straw Man Aug 2016 #47
30,000 misrepresented statistics. JonathanRackham Aug 2016 #34
You are denying difference in circumstances, which prevents effective action to prevent those deaths krispos42 Sep 2016 #129
If poverty and social inequality are the primary causes of crime. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #130
Thank you krispos42 Sep 2016 #131
A fisking of that site that will give the doctrinaire a sad: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #5
30,000 gun deaths a year. Keep parsing and explaining. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #12
Your collective guilt-tripping and appeals to emotion seem not to be gaining traction friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #13
A certain number of people literally do not care about others. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #17
And those individual people are responsible, not an entire group friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #23
Yes. Some of them focus on what other people own. beevul Aug 2016 #33
30,000 gun dead are also the consequences of choices. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #35
Not my choices. N/T beevul Aug 2016 #36
I agree - at least 2/3 are in that example...suicide and all. Guess most are in fact, as others jmg257 Aug 2016 #41
I suppose the only way to show care is a gun ban? ileus Aug 2016 #45
"A certain number of people literally do not care about others." beergood Sep 2016 #98
Remarkable few of which were caused by by the group under discussion friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #15
What is the source of the electricity? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #18
A thoughtful reply to a question not asked- and I should have said CNG vehicles, not electric ones friendly_iconoclast Aug 2016 #29
If you had specified CNG, I would have responded: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #37
Isn't it a sad commentary virginia mountainman Aug 2016 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author JonathanRackham Aug 2016 #30
532 people have been killed by police so far this year. JonathanRackham Aug 2016 #32
Are you suggesting disarming the police? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #38
Except the police aren't covered by the Second Amendment. JonathanRackham Aug 2016 #40
Interesting - 885 total permit-related gun deaths in 9 years... jmg257 Aug 2016 #58
Now estimated at 14 million permits, not counting constitutional carry states DonP Aug 2016 #61
Indeed so Duckhunter935 Aug 2016 #63
While around 1200 criminals are responsible for over 400 deaths in Chicago alone every year. jmg257 Aug 2016 #67
There has been very little comment from the other TX colleges. Hangingon Aug 2016 #50
In UT lit classes, the study of Long Dong Silver is required. Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #72
Our Flagship university! Hangingon Aug 2016 #74
This message was self-deleted by its author apcalc Sep 2016 #101
What ought to be done until concealed carry is revoked: no_hypocrisy Sep 2016 #102
In most states that is already the law. Duckhunter935 Sep 2016 #104
Great idea, we can call that sort of action... SQUEE Sep 2016 #105
Along with about 40+ or so other states DonP Sep 2016 #107
And they see no_hypocrisy in arguing from a position of ignorance........ pablo_marmol Sep 2016 #108
No, they really take great pride in not knowing things DonP Sep 2016 #110
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