Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Uponthegears

(1,499 posts)
21. Let's see
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 11:30 AM
Dec 2016

Registration actually already occurs every time a legal purchase is made from a FFL holder ("gun dealer&quot .

The name of the purchaser, with identifying information, is recorded by the FFL together with a description of the firearm purchased including serial number. The ATF requires that information to be maintained in a "book" which must be kept by the FFL and transferred to any successor in interest.

Here's the rub. The FFL does not provide that information to any law enforcement agency. This means that the government has no idea who purchased a firearm until AFTER it is used to kill/hurt someone and AFTER the weapon is recovered. In other words, we have the information already, we just can't use it.

So I guess your question is: What would law enforcement do with this information if they had it in a single master list?

Well, one thing they would be able to do is to assemble a list of who is purchasing firearms and what kind of firearms they are purchasing. From such a list, they would be able to identify potential "straw purchasers" and non-licensed (non-FFL) dealers by checking to see how many weapons (and what kind of weapons) are being purchased by a given individual. For example, if Buyer A has purchased 40 Glock 19s over the last 6 months (or even 2 or 3 over the last week), law enforcement might well want to take a closer look at that individual to see if they are either: (a) intentionally purchasing weapons for individuals who they know to unable to legally possess such weapons (you know, folks like convicted felons); or, (b) running an illegal "gun store" where they sell firearms in what the claim is a person to person transaction (and thus free from the "hassle" of background checks, maintaining the "book" etc.) Both of these are violations of federal law and many state laws. More importantly, contrary to the myth some have pushed here, it is from THESE sales, NOT by stealing them, that most "professional" criminals obtain their weapons. Alerting law enforcement to such potential criminals allows it to target further criminal investigations. Cutting off this supply of guns is a good thing.

Another thing it would allow is to permit government to identify the demographics of gun purchasers to account for troubling social developments that the government might want to address. For example, the government might (oh, say it ain't so) discover that the overwhelming majority of gun purchases are made by white suburbanites who have been persuaded to accept the racist meme that they face a danger from "those people" sneaking into their suburban communities and doing them harm that is greater than the increased danger created by the mere presence of an additional firearm in their home. Addressing the spread of racist myths is a legitimate government interest.

Well, there's a couple for you anyway.

When a shooting occurs metroins Dec 2016 #1
Respectfully, you seem to be arguing both sides of the issue (n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #5
Is there anything wrong with that? metroins Dec 2016 #28
In manyt cases the police haved a bigger avantage since wwhen you register a gun, the serial # napi21 Dec 2016 #76
The problem is criminals tend to steal guns and not register them Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #11
I think you should be civilly liable for a stolen firearm metroins Dec 2016 #29
Got stats with crimes using stolen guns? rickford66 Dec 2016 #30
It's up to the owner to notify the police if their weapon is stolen. If the owner didn't bother to napi21 Dec 2016 #77
The vehicle v firearm registration analogy is weak for a number of reasons discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #18
That's how it works on TV gejohnston Dec 2016 #22
For some folks... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #62
Why registration? when trump gets ready to take your guns he will have a list. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #2
Why dodge the question? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #19
seems legit ! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #53
Because people fear government intrusion into their lives HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #3
Please see my response #4 below (n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #6
Aren't other devices registered? PJMcK Dec 2016 #4
Not all cars are registered Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #12
I have an exception. rickford66 Dec 2016 #31
The title is a bit different Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #37
Without this procedure, I cicn't legally own it. rickford66 Dec 2016 #55
I guess where you live thats the case Johnathan146 Dec 2016 #59
I'm in New York rickford66 Dec 2016 #63
buying a car titled out of state is likely difficult everywhere discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #65
In FL, no registration for "grove trucks" which live on the farm... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #73
Yes. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #25
It makes it easier to round up X or Y after being banned. ileus Dec 2016 #7
By the same token... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #26
Trump does not need a list safeinOhio Dec 2016 #8
Most gun owners do not belong to the NRA (n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #9
Only 5 million safeinOhio Dec 2016 #10
Sounds about right PJMcK Dec 2016 #13
We can generalize, polls confirm, safeinOhio Dec 2016 #14
Yet, universal infringements failed in Maine... Kang Colby Dec 2016 #70
Military type... Puha Ekapi_2 Dec 2016 #15
No safeinOhio Dec 2016 #16
I own... Puha Ekapi_2 Dec 2016 #17
JFK was a life member n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #79
The NRA didn't become crazy until the late 60s safeinOhio Dec 2016 #81
Not the question discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #27
I would say there are four 'arguments in favor of' or 'reasons for' registration: petronius Dec 2016 #20
Thoughts on those 4 discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #23
I agree with you on 3 and 4 (and those are the reasons that a pro-registration person petronius Dec 2016 #40
re: "There are reasons for becoming prohibited that in no way support probable cause for a search" discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #45
Looking at the federal list of prohibited persons, petronius Dec 2016 #56
I can agree there discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #60
Let's see Uponthegears Dec 2016 #21
straw purchases and racists discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #33
Wow, this is astoundingly misleading. Uponthegears Dec 2016 #38
misleading discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #41
Guns are tools Uponthegears Dec 2016 #47
"...they are the key to maintaining a power they forged on the backs of the enslaved." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #48
Once or twice a year I will buy small collections. oneshooter Dec 2016 #64
As you said Uponthegears Dec 2016 #66
Registration is addressed in the Florida state statutes. ... spin Dec 2016 #24
I couldn't have said it better discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #35
Exactly. (n/t) spin Dec 2016 #57
Are there still people here MFM008 Dec 2016 #32
Still??? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #34
Are there still people here pablo_marmol Dec 2016 #36
Are there still people here... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #54
I'd prefer ID for all bullet sales, with the bullet projectiles laser-etched. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #39
Ummm... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #42
I can't read your mind. n/t Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #43
I'm speechless that you consider it feasible to... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #46
Why? Incredible amounts of data can be stored and transmitted now. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #49
I guess but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #50
I think most shooting deaths are crimes of passion, or not well planned. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #51
I'm not arguing that the determined and skilled won't find ways around anything discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #58
I prefer to see how forensics experts view it after it is gejohnston Dec 2016 #44
I don't see see the utility in registration, either. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #52
This is the ONLY use for Registration.. virginia mountainman Dec 2016 #61
I don't think anyone is claiming Uponthegears Dec 2016 #67
I don't think he is claiming yagotme Dec 2016 #68
Don't want to shock y'all Uponthegears Dec 2016 #69
Massachusetts not Maryland. n/t Kang Colby Dec 2016 #71
Thanks. Knew it started with an "M". yagotme Dec 2016 #72
This thread is an example of a reasoned, respectul discussion. Congrats all! Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #74
The reason I can see is to make UBC more effective, and so cut down on straw purchases. jmg257 Dec 2016 #75
How would it cut down on straw purchases? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #80
False Comparison Fallacy J_William_Ryan Dec 2016 #78
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Why registration? What is...»Reply #21