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Kang Colby

(1,941 posts)
26. Because it's already federal law.
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 12:06 PM
Jan 2017

Last edited Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I have to apologize for the delayed response. I was quite fortunate to spend the last few days ringing in the New Year with friends and family out of state. It was a good time. I look forward to a happy and successful 2017, and wish the same to you..flamin'. While I disagree with the content of almost every post you make, I do enjoy reading your thoughtful input.

I'll caveat this with I don't/can't speak for the NRA or any other group. I speak for Kang Colby and that's it. My opinions are my own and aren't necessarily shared by anyone else.

You know, I often post about how bleak things were for us pro-rights guys and gals for decades, stretching back to the late 1960s and peaking in the early 2000s when our ship finally started to turn. I'm not going to rehash all of that today. But the "toy gun" debate is surely an oldie but goodie. When discussions of toy gun legislation started to make headlines, many of us pro-rights folks were dealing with GCA '68 pre-FOPA, talks of AWBs, the impending Brady Act which was first proposed in 1987 before passing in the 90s, machine gun bans, discussion of national handgun bans, George H.W. Bush's import ban on a multitude of semi-automatic rifles. Needless to say, there wasn't much time in the day to fret about 6mm orange tips on toy guns, including airsoft.

Going back to this country's founding, toy guns were almost always intended to look like real firearms. Cast iron, wood, springs, and advertising in comic books and on the radio lauding the toy guns for looking "just like a real gun". Toy guns were intended to look real. Some of the best examples come from the 1960s, but I like the 1920s-late 50s era toy guns, specifically cap guns.

While gun controllers have been fiddling with toy gun restrictions dating back over sixty years, the major piece of federal legislation came in 1988 and was signed by Ronald Reagan, and sponsored by (at the time) NRA ally, Bob Dole. Bob originally proposed the idea as part of the Undetectable Firearms Act but it was later added to the Federal Energy Management Act of 1988 as an amendment requiring orange tips. To my knowledge, no major firearm lobbying organization opposed the amendment.

The law applies to: "look-alike firearms" meaning any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

So, you are probably wondering where does that leave air guns that expel metallic objects and paint balls. Those aren't toys. BB/pellet guns can cause serious injury or death if misused. NSSF and NRA offered input and opposition on state level legislation mandating color schemes for BB/pellet guns due to potential public safety issues. The concern being that coloring BB guns like toys may inadvertently signify a lack of harm associated with misuse. In any event, Bob Dole's amendment required a study be conducted on the efficacy of orange tips which found that law enforcement failed to recognize the blaze orange identifiers 96% of the time. In other words, this is just a feel good idea with little public safety merit.

Per NSSF, coloring requirements on BB/pellet guns may do more harm than good:


If it is required by statute to color them like toys,
as proposed in SB 798, a dangerous risk of injury will
be created because users could view them as toys and
treat them accordingly. In fact, SB 798 could
unintentionally promote the use of BB devices as if
they are toys.


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_798_cfa_20110427_154959_sen_comm.html

NRA's statement on the matter:
Senate Bill 798, air gun, airsoft and BB gun sales ban legislation, also introduced by Senator De León, would treat air guns and BB guns the same as a toy gun by requiring the entire exterior surface of the device to be white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple as the predominate color. Air gun and BB guns are not toys and should not be treated as or manufactured like a toy. SB 798 would include the complete exterior of an airsoft gun also be colored. Airsoft guns are already classified as toys/imitation firearms and are regulated under federal law to have an orange tip. SB 798 does not stop there, it would also place a civil fine on the sale, manufacture, transportation, receipt, or distribution of imitation firearms for commercial purposes. Ultimately, SB 798 will ban the sale of all air guns, BB guns and airsoft guns unless the manufacturer is willing to take on the extra expense of complying with California’s (the only state) new law, if enacted into law. SB 798 passed in the Senate by 21 to 16 vote.


https://www.nraila.org/articles/20110617/gun-related-bills-to-be-heard-on-june-2-1

NSSF via partnership with the National Crime Prevention Council's "McGruff the Crime Dog", states, "even toy guns must be handled with care:never aim a toy gun at someone because that person might think it’s a real gun." Via the same McGruff program, NSSF reminds educators that BB guns are NOT toys. https://www.nssf.org/PDF/McGruff_TGD.pdf

The NRA has opposed toy or imitation gun bans, which depending on the state/locality have included provisions outright banning all toys that look like firearms, to more specific bans on airsoft or bb/pellet guns. Baltimore recently passed a ban on such guns. Of course the NRA should oppose such meritless bans. Personally, I just chalk it up to another stone in the ongoing culture war against lawful gun ownership.

Personally, I love "toy gun bans". The issue makes gun control advocates look like extremists for wanting to ban toys. All pro-rights folks have to do is simple messaging....If gun controllers want to ban cap guns, what do you think they want to do with your real firearms? It's just one of those things that makes people weary of supporting gun control measures at all. So, by all means continue.


You would have to ask the NRA sarisataka Dec 2016 #1
Are they opposed? ileus Dec 2016 #2
I have so many of the gungeoneers on ignore I have log out to see them. flamin lib Dec 2016 #3
That is a decent article. ManiacJoe Jan 2017 #17
What makes you think that someone, who can't accept a right... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #18
Well, you know. One more hit with Ben's 2x4 might do the trick. ManiacJoe Jan 2017 #21
You are placing people on "Ignore" ... Straw Man Jan 2017 #24
Heh. Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #28
See post #20 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #30
Many gun people have you on "ignore". oneshooter Jan 2017 #43
Don't recall saying that, maybe I did but don't recall. flamin lib Jan 2017 #44
I have a different Question: Why is it OK to kill people with Toy Guns if we have RKBA? mackdaddy Dec 2016 #4
No, I'm asking the right question. Thanks for playing. flamin lib Dec 2016 #5
..... justhanginon Dec 2016 #6
Those folks need a toy NRA discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #7
Because most of the replica firearms being discussed here aren't toys. benEzra Dec 2016 #8
At least 13 were replicas and 16 were airsoft. flamin lib Dec 2016 #9
The article *you* quoted says "air guns", not just toys. benEzra Dec 2016 #10
No, it is NOT the case. flamin lib Dec 2016 #11
Your own article puts BB and pellet weapons at the top of the list. benEzra Dec 2016 #12
I ask one more time flamin lib Dec 2016 #13
Pellet guns are not toys - they are real weapons hack89 Jan 2017 #23
He doesn't want to listen citood Jan 2017 #51
They don't. That's *ALREADY* the law, since 1988 (15 U.S. Code 5001). benEzra Jan 2017 #34
Soooooo flamin lib Jan 2017 #35
They are marketed and sold as theatrical props hack89 Jan 2017 #38
which begs the question gejohnston Jan 2017 #39
Those aren't toys. Your link has law-enforcement training replicas, and benEzra Jan 2017 #60
Tamir Rice. nt flamin lib Jan 2017 #61
Who was holding an Airsoft that someone else had painted to look real. benEzra Jan 2017 #62
John Crawford nt flamin lib Jan 2017 #63
Another fail- Crawford was handling a pellet/BB gun, which was an actual weapon- not a toy friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #64
Who was shot when a shopper who was either racist, delusional, or anti-gun trolled 911... benEzra Jan 2017 #66
Why haven't I heard from our resident NRA expert and supporter/promoter, Kang Colby. flamin lib Dec 2016 #14
The devil is in the details. Straw Man Jan 2017 #22
Because it's already federal law. Kang Colby Jan 2017 #26
Thanks for the reply and glad you had a wonderful weekend. flamin lib Jan 2017 #36
You make some fair points. Kang Colby Jan 2017 #37
So it's the victim's fault? These are all crimes worthy of capital punishment? flamin lib Jan 2017 #40
Sooo, the civilian weapons yagotme Jan 2017 #41
Lethality is more than ballistics. flamin lib Jan 2017 #42
My post was in reply to yours, yagotme Jan 2017 #45
Can you shoot that fast? flamin lib Jan 2017 #46
No, not quite, but if someone wanted to practice, yagotme Jan 2017 #47
One more time, flamin lib Jan 2017 #48
And you claim I throw insults? n/t oneshooter Jan 2017 #49
How many hours do I get, like in FL? yagotme Jan 2017 #50
It is idiocy to maintain a man with a revolver can wound or kill 100 people flamin lib Jan 2017 #52
Are you always this condescending yagotme Jan 2017 #53
This is the same "expert" who claimed the first production run of Mosin Nagant rifles... Marengo Jan 2017 #54
I know, have been watching his modus operandi yagotme Jan 2017 #55
Naa, I save condescension for the guy who flamin lib Jan 2017 #56
Oh my. yagotme Jan 2017 #57
"Silencers...really don't silence and only serve the purpose of making your gun longer" friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #65
So, why all the expense of putting something yagotme Jan 2017 #68
And yet every year, ten or fifteen times as many people are murdered with revolvers benEzra Jan 2017 #67
The best reason that I can think of is... ToolMaker Dec 2016 #15
I'll answer your question if you answer mine discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #16
this reply is for discntnt_irny_srcsm because DU won't let me post replyies to flamin lib Jan 2017 #19
Cool & Happy New Year discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #20
Beginning to sound like a very proper British comedy. Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #29
Apparently I was temporarily unigored via manual override... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #58
Confusion to the enemy! Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #59
Only thing I come up with is it's a pushback SQUEE Jan 2017 #25
Well, reading both the CBS & the mammoth WaPo screed, little about the NRA.. Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #27
If I recall, in IL, yagotme Jan 2017 #31
That doesn't surprise me. I attempted a discussion with a gun prohibitionist Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #32
Bayonets, pikes, swords yagotme Jan 2017 #33
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