Religion

MineralMan

(147,591 posts)

66. You were "very uncomfortable?"

Reply to guillaumeb (Reply #54)

Tue Sep 4, 2018, 09:36 AM

Sep 2018

Last edited Tue Sep 4, 2018, 11:44 AM - Edit history (3)

You wrote:

"The real issue is sexual predation.

And where it occurs.

One of my most difficult cases in the union was representing a member who had admitted to assaulting his daughter. While my focus and legal obligation as a Union Representative was on protecting his rights to be represented, I was very uncomfortable.

I spoke privately, at their request, to his wife and daughter, and they wanted his job protected because he was the primary income earner. What a horrible choice, what a terrible position, to be in, for wife and daughter!! "

Do you not understand that victims in such cases often don't want to report those crimes, out of fear? Did that person continue to sexually assault his daughter after that, with impunity? I suggest that your moral obligation was to report that crime to the authorities, not simply to let it go unreported.

What is the difference between what you did and what Catholic priests and bishops do in not reporting such sexual abuse? I'd be interested in your explanation of that. I'll wait here.

I've been thinking about this since yesterday. It kept me awake last night. To me, it seems very much related to the discussion we are having here. I hope you'll respond.

Of course, I recognize that your story may be a fable, provided to make some sort of point. If that is the case, please say so.

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Highlight:

What causes the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) to hide the problem of pedophile priests? [View all] guillaumeb Sep 2018 OP

Another reason is the shortage of priests Quemado Sep 2018 #1

But the issues is not simply that pedophiles exist in the priesthood, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #3

Pedophiles exist in every profession and walk of life.. whathehell Sep 2018 #103

Of course. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #104

Cover ups, yes whathehell Sep 2018 #105

And I understand that people hold religious groups to a higher standard, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #107

One hopes that there is at least some minimal vetting that goes on marylandblue Sep 2018 #113

And that is a good suggestion. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #119

Those weren't suggestions for a future plan for possible implemention marylandblue Sep 2018 #121

There was no background check when I attended a university. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #122

This isn't about background checks marylandblue Sep 2018 #125

Well whathehell Sep 2018 #115

Yes they do, but as we all know, intentions and actions do not always accord. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #120

Actually whathehell Sep 2018 #124

Well I think priests just intended to get a good job marylandblue Sep 2018 #128

This was going on long before there was any shortage of priests. nt. Mariana Sep 2018 #7

True, but Quemado Sep 2018 #10

As long as there have been sexual predators, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #15

This thread is about the protection of the sexual predators, Gil. Mariana Sep 2018 #16

I did not claim that a shortage of priests was a factor. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #22

Nor did she claim you said that. MineralMan Sep 2018 #23

See posts 16 and 22. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #132

Gil has told us he receives numerous personal messages Mariana Sep 2018 #143

Excellent analysis. Maybe you can recommend changes. California_Republic Sep 2018 #2

I agree with your analysis. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #4

Uh, money? TlalocW Sep 2018 #5

Agreed. It is one reason. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #6

Yep, money and control/power BigmanPigman Sep 2018 #11

"Uh, money?" mitch96 Sep 2018 #12

Closed, hierarchical concentrated power. As the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely Raven123 Sep 2018 #8

Agreed. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #9

High ranking members of any organization believe that they know better than the No Vested Interest Sep 2018 #38

Nor do I. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #40

centuries of patriarchy. pansypoo53219 Sep 2018 #13

In every institution. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #14

Are RCC child rape apologists part of the institution of child rape? Major Nikon Sep 2018 #17

Anyone who fails to report abuse, no matter the institution, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #24

Why am I not surprised you didn't answer the question? Major Nikon Sep 2018 #61

See #54 MineralMan Sep 2018 #65

You agree both Pope's are culpable? Lordquinton Sep 2018 #67

Is there a God edhopper Sep 2018 #18

Catholics believe that the Pope, like Peter, is the head of the RCC. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #25

Once again, you have failed to understand the question. MineralMan Sep 2018 #27

Once again, you failed to understand my answer. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #30

At least now we know edhopper Sep 2018 #60

The Creator might feel that free will is an important aspect of sentience. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #70

Did the children who were raped have free will edhopper Sep 2018 #74

Free will does not mean freedom "from" anything. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #78

So they think the Creator edhopper Sep 2018 #93

I cannot answer the last question. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #97

Above their fealty to God? edhopper Sep 2018 #99

What individuals do reflects on themselves. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #101

So the RCC edhopper Sep 2018 #106

The RCC has existed for 2,000 years. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #108

any school edhopper Sep 2018 #111

And how would this solution be implemented? eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #117

Institutions HAVE been disbanded before or leadership completely replaced marylandblue Sep 2018 #112

Entitlement. As representatives of God on Earth, MineralMan Sep 2018 #19

That's a point usually ignored in this forum marylandblue Sep 2018 #20

Exactly. MineralMan Sep 2018 #21

We expect more, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #28

Yes, it is logical to expect more from some not others. marylandblue Sep 2018 #32

There are certain human behaviors that seem to be constant. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #35

Answer my question. marylandblue Sep 2018 #39

My doctor does not smoke. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #41

I did not ask about what your actually doctor does, but what your expectations of him are. marylandblue Sep 2018 #42

We differ on the doctor question. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #43

Imperfection and inconsistency do not surprise me either marylandblue Sep 2018 #45

300 priests and 1000+ victims in just one state, MineralMan Sep 2018 #34

Again, you demonstrate your misunderstanding. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #37

How many of them being pedophiles edhopper Sep 2018 #94

No number is acceptable. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #98

So the RCC gets a pass edhopper Sep 2018 #100

No one should get a pass. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #102

Institutions get a pass with you. marylandblue Sep 2018 #114

My post contradicts your assertion. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #118

Yes, because you describe it as unfortunate human trait marylandblue Sep 2018 #171

It is a trait that exists everywhere. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #172

Again, you are overgeneralizing and avoiding significant details in the RCC scandal marylandblue Sep 2018 #173

Yes indeed. Religions should be held to higher standards than the groups the OP names Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #44

Utternonsenseism on your part. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #26

So many fallacies in your post. Biggest is "what-about-ism". Nice try, but you failed. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2018 #29

You failed to understand the post, and the history presented. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #31

So many misunderstanding your post? MineralMan Sep 2018 #33

No, a very few. You among them. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #36

.. MineralMan Sep 2018 #47

The only answer that you could have given? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #49

.. MineralMan Sep 2018 #50

I understood it perfectly Major Nikon Sep 2018 #62

I understand your agenda perfectly. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #71

Opposition to child rape apologia Major Nikon Sep 2018 #76

And when you find that rape apologia, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #79

I already did Major Nikon Sep 2018 #90

Right. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #95

For all the organizations... 'Protect the institution'... which protects the leaders. keithbvadu2 Sep 2018 #46

True, and each such organization is excusing criminal behavior. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #48

a bunch of false equivalencies AlexSFCA Sep 2018 #51

Incorrect. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #52

Yes, families are a major issue, although a very different one from the church marylandblue Sep 2018 #53

The real issue is sexual predation. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #54

I know of more cases like that than you do, not all involving sexual abuse marylandblue Sep 2018 #55

Agreed. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #59

I wish I did not know that about you. MineralMan Sep 2018 #57

You were "very uncomfortable?" MineralMan Sep 2018 #66

My rief story was taken from my over 30 years of union representation. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #75

Well, lacking that important information, yes, I did not have a complete picture. MineralMan Sep 2018 #80

And for that I apologized. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #81

children cannot serve in US military AlexSFCA Sep 2018 #56

Children attend school, and belong to athletic clubs, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #58

This has to be the biggest stretch I've seen in a long time Lordquinton Sep 2018 #68

Because "Creator?" MineralMan Sep 2018 #69

They do always seem to get touchy (no pun intended) when you ask theological questions Lordquinton Sep 2018 #91

Briefly glance at my own title. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #77

Your title is what raised my question Lordquinton Sep 2018 #92

Alternatively, you missed the point. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #96

I got your point Lordquinton Sep 2018 #109

My suspicion is confirmed. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #110

K Lordquinton Sep 2018 #116

Religion isn't just the setting, it is part of the coverup marylandblue Sep 2018 #126

gil doesn't want anyone to talk about that. trotsky Sep 2018 #177

Another issue, which I think is pretty much unique to the RCC, thucythucy Sep 2018 #63

Very well argued. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #72

Their religious belief that canon law supersedes secular law. trotsky Sep 2018 #64

I have already posted about Canon Law in another post. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #73

And you started a new thread to try and set the terms of the discussion to exclude religion. trotsky Sep 2018 #82

And I titled it "What causes the Roman Catholic Church...etc". guillaumeb Sep 2018 #83

But you tried to exclude RELIGION from the discussion, despite this being the RELIGION group. trotsky Sep 2018 #84

No, you are simply trying to convince yourself, in spite of the evidence of the actual post, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #86

OK. trotsky Sep 2018 #87

You are amazing. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #89

Your analysis is superficial and incomplete marylandblue Sep 2018 #142

My analysis, like every post at DU, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #148

Between hundreds of pages and a single cause -canon law marylandblue Sep 2018 #170

TL;DR Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #85

I'll give you the TL;DR summary: trotsky Sep 2018 #88

This might help you understand this post: guillaumeb Sep 2018 #123

You are denying (or simply ignoring) the vast scale of this conspiracy marylandblue Sep 2018 #127

This post, my own, refutes what you wrote. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #130

An example of you denying or ignoring the scale is here marylandblue Sep 2018 #141

You know, he quoted that to me the other day Lordquinton Sep 2018 #144

If it is 7%, what of the other 93% guillaumeb Sep 2018 #147

Before I answer that, first you have to admit that marylandblue Sep 2018 #158

There are many cources, and all of them are estimates. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #162

The estimates matter, as does the source marylandblue Sep 2018 #165

And my final question, of culpability. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #166

you don't admit the truth, you don't get an answer marylandblue Sep 2018 #167

What truth? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #168

That you chose the lowest, most biased available estimate marylandblue Sep 2018 #169

Yep, that's the definition. Thanks for confirming it's what you do. trotsky Sep 2018 #129

You see what you wish to see. Or need to see. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #131

A non-response. trotsky Sep 2018 #134

My feeling is that you are a non-literalist. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #135

HAHAHAHA trotsky Sep 2018 #137

My observation was not intended as an insult. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #149

Do you believe anything that is written in the Bible? MineralMan Sep 2018 #152

Yes, I believe in the message of Jesus. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #154

Jesus is supposed to have said many things. Which part of his "message" MineralMan Sep 2018 #156

Guill's Concise Summary of Belief would in fact be a useful marylandblue Sep 2018 #159

I've often asked Gil to provide a glossary Mariana Sep 2018 #179

I don't think he has any real religious beliefs marylandblue Sep 2018 #180

Then you are a literalist. trotsky Sep 2018 #175

Wait...weren't you just calling us "literalists" the other week? MineralMan Sep 2018 #138

It must be very hard to keep all of this straight, MineralMan. Mariana Sep 2018 #139

I'm thinking I might need index cards MineralMan Sep 2018 #140

Many of the atheists here insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #150

Actually, we don't take any of the Bible literally. MineralMan Sep 2018 #151

I have been asked to list exactly which verses I take literally. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #153

That is not what I asked you. MineralMan Sep 2018 #155

It's not nonsense at all. In fact you are the only Christian I know marylandblue Sep 2018 #160

And I have responded to specifics, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #163

No, you often haven't, but that's off topic marylandblue Sep 2018 #164

"Many of the atheists here insist on a literal interpretation of the Bible." trotsky Sep 2018 #178

The only thing gil is consistent about... trotsky Sep 2018 #176

Wait, what? Lordquinton Sep 2018 #145

You stated: guillaumeb Sep 2018 #133

You are once again completely mistaken and imagining persecution where it doesn't exist. trotsky Sep 2018 #136

Your further conclusion that I am deflecting is proven false by my post. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #146

Yes, you have convinced yourself MineralMan Sep 2018 #157

2 weak attempts might make harmony, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #161

I yield to your superior argument consisting of "no u." trotsky Sep 2018 #174