Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts) Fri Nov 9, 2018, 07:27 PM Nov 2018

Two views on theism: [View all]

In the first quote, we have a man who, while progressive in his political opinions, exposes his extreme intolerance as he attacks theists. He reveals much about himself, but nothing about those whom he obviously hates.

The quote:

There is something feeble, and a little contemptible, about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought, and he therefore cannot carry his own reflection to any logical conclusion.

Bertrand Russell

In the second quote, we have a man who acknowledges his own limitations and reserves judgment because he recognizes those limitations.
The quote:

"I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

- Albert Einstein

Personally, I find the intolerant progressive to be far the intellectually inferior of the two in attitude, but that attitude of contempt seems to be much in favor among some.

My own view is that, while I have faith, there is no proof. And as long as both sides recognize the essential unprovability of both positions in the theism versus non-theism debate, we can share our progressive politics while understanding that we do not agree on all things.

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108 replies

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Highlight:

Two views on theism: [View all] guillaumeb Nov 2018 OP

I'm a Buddhist vlyons Nov 2018 #1

I understand your belief, and respect it. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #2

Whatever your beliefs are don't invalidate my confidence in Buddha's teachings vlyons Nov 2018 #4

Excellent advice. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #5

But is that how it should be? Spending so much time with people you work with Doodley Nov 2018 #8

My job description was union representative, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #15

I think Einstein was right. JNelson6563 Nov 2018 #3

Agreed. If we truly recognize out limitations, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #6

One is self-righteous and the other humble. These attitudes can be held by theists and atheists. Doodley Nov 2018 #7

We all see it. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #16

I just want someone something to thank. violetpastille Nov 2018 #9

A feral kid. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #17

you can be thankful Brainstormy Nov 2018 #27

Two points of view from two highly intelligent men. MineralMan Nov 2018 #10

Both were intelligent. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #18

Clearly, you are not very familiar with Russell. MineralMan Nov 2018 #34

Gil knows all he needs to know from those two quotes. Mariana Nov 2018 #48

Personally, I believe religion is but a warped interpretation/expression of humility. Comatose Sphagetti Nov 2018 #11

Even more so during his time Major Nikon Nov 2018 #13

Another disciple of Russell? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #20

My limitation is people will not be quoting me 50 years after my death Major Nikon Nov 2018 #24

As I thought. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #41

Says the guy who defends the RCC child rapists and their enablers Major Nikon Nov 2018 #62

More misreading on your part. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #85

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #89

Your other gift on display. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #91

Tell us again how deism is another form of theism Major Nikon Nov 2018 #94

Jesus f'ing Christ do you have a clue who Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #35

Wait, what? You mean none of us here in the Religion Group is MineralMan Nov 2018 #36

Well, one frequent poster seems to feel qualified Mariana Nov 2018 #51

The shadow cast, however, is narrow and scarcely dims MineralMan Nov 2018 #99

That tiny shadow appears to be distinctly troll-shaped. nt. Mariana Nov 2018 #100

Hmm... MineralMan Nov 2018 #101

Can humanity break the bonds of what makes us human? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #19

I strongly believe that you should leave off putting people MineralMan Nov 2018 #39

The irony that guilt by association works both ways is lost on that one Major Nikon Nov 2018 #64

Yet another brilliant faceplant Major Nikon Nov 2018 #12

You'll find no consistency where there is no understanding. MineralMan Nov 2018 #14

Another disciple of Russell. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #22

I'm doing neither, of course. MineralMan Nov 2018 #32

What's consistent is the baiting OP Major Nikon Nov 2018 #25

You should really stay with your gif(t). guillaumeb Nov 2018 #21

Meanwhile you'll stay with zero substance replies Major Nikon Nov 2018 #23

Because you do not understand something does not make it nonsense. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #45

Undoubtedly your canned responses are so deep intellectually nobody else could understand Major Nikon Nov 2018 #63

You have convinced yourself, yes. MineralMan Nov 2018 #69

And you should avoid giving advice to others, I think. MineralMan Nov 2018 #40

Was this intended for yourself? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #42

Wow! A clever rework of the tired ol' "I'm rubber, you're glue line" Major Nikon Nov 2018 #65

LOL! MineralMan Nov 2018 #71

Also, he's still pretending that criticism is intolerance. Mariana Nov 2018 #28

About as strong as insisting deists are really theists Major Nikon Nov 2018 #29

Yeah conflating criticism with intolerance is a problem and an insult marylandblue Nov 2018 #31

The quote: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #46

It may be name calling but it is not "intolerance" marylandblue Nov 2018 #56

It is personal intolerance, if expressed privately, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #58

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #67

Free speech is only free if it can be public marylandblue Nov 2018 #76

Gil's definition of intolerance: Mariana Nov 2018 #77

A bit problematic for one who often contradicts himself Major Nikon Nov 2018 #79

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #66

Your insight amazes. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #86

Bertrand Russell said and wrote many excellent ideas. MineralMan Nov 2018 #33

And what does this single quote demonstrate? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #47

We can also disagree that it's unproveable and still share progressive politics nt marylandblue Nov 2018 #26

Russell's dismantling of believers ideology edhopper Nov 2018 #30

Russel's intolerance for theists is well known. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #43

He was "intolerant" edhopper Nov 2018 #52

Here is just one of his many pronouncements on religion: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #54

Contempt is not intolerance marylandblue Nov 2018 #57

It is publicly expressed contempt and it leads and is intended to lead to intolerance. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #59

Yes it borders on BLASPHEMY Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #61

Another example of conflating an attack on a belief as an attack of a person Major Nikon Nov 2018 #72

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #70

It's intended to criticize religion marylandblue Nov 2018 #75

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #68

It's interesting that you mention Russell and Einstein in the same post. MineralMan Nov 2018 #37

The only thing that seems to matter is he is an atheist Major Nikon Nov 2018 #81

essential unprovability Cartoonist Nov 2018 #38

Neither position is provable. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #44

Here is a provable statement Cartoonist Nov 2018 #49

No, it is an unproven and unprovable assertion. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #50

So you are saying there is proof edhopper Nov 2018 #53

No, I said that Cartoonists' assertion is only that. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #55

His statement edhopper Nov 2018 #60

Reeks of desperation Major Nikon Nov 2018 #74

The statement is unprovable. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #84

No edhopper Nov 2018 #88

Yes. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #96

you don't understand how edhopper Nov 2018 #97

Where is the proof? /nt tonedevil Nov 2018 #104

You've admitted there is no proof marylandblue Nov 2018 #95

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #80

You are making a logic error marylandblue Nov 2018 #83

Gil has a tendency to contradict himself Major Nikon Nov 2018 #106

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #73

Einstein had no use or respect for theism Major Nikon Nov 2018 #78

What appears to be happening is a version of "proof-texting" MineralMan Nov 2018 #82

Did you actually read the Einstein quote that is a part of this OP? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #87

Yes. What he meant had nothing to do with theism. Major Nikon Nov 2018 #90

I asked what you think he meant. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #92

Bullshit Major Nikon Nov 2018 #93

Did you read the very real einstien quote that you are responding to? Lordquinton Nov 2018 #105

I asked the same question and predicted he would never answer it Major Nikon Nov 2018 #107

You speak in the OP of "both sides".. Permanut Nov 2018 #98

To accuse Bertrand Russell of "extreme intolerance" is ridiculous... malchickiwick Nov 2018 #102

Actually, I doubt if he knows much about Bertrand Russell. MineralMan Nov 2018 #103

Early Russell: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #108